Episode 135

As a parent, have you ever heard your kids say something like, I can do what I want, you can't control me? What are those kind of statements bring up in you? What are they triggering you? Do you believe that? Do you think maybe you can control them, that you can make them do what you want? Do you fear if you don't, that these kids are gonna be wild, crazy kids who are gonna run all over the house? Is this permissive parenting?

Do I need to like jump in and become an authoritarian parent and get the control back? Make sure that kid knows that they have to and need to do these things. And I am asking these are the questions we want to wrestle with today in our podcast. And we want to do it in light of Thanksgiving coming because there's so many connections between the holidays and these very statements in our hearts as parents. The little kid in us many times is saying the exact same thing.

And we wish we had some control over the craziness of all this time, even though there's so much joy and beauty, there's also can be a lot of frustration and a lot of stress and a lot of anxiety. So we hope you enjoy this podcast today. Before you jump into it, please take a moment to comment, to give us a review. We'd love to hear back from you about how this impacts your holiday time. I hope it really frees you. This, podcast will be freeze you to enjoy the holidays in a different way.

Hello, welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hi, I'm Sara. And Sara, this is a special week. know, lot of families are off this week. It's Thanksgiving week. Yeah, fun week. So we want to say to everybody listening in America, happy Thanksgiving. And to all of you listening internationally, I hope you have a great week as well. But this is typically a big week to get together with family and friends. Yep, eat some really good food. Get to too much really good food, right? Yeah. Is there food you're looking forward to?

All of it, okay. What about you? I really hope we get some pie, right? You'd like some pie? yeah. Yeah, so I hope all of you get the food you're hoping to get, some mashed potatoes maybe, some pecan pie, cherry pie, all that fun stuff. pie, pumpkin pie. But you know what, Sara, getting together with family sometimes brings together a multitude of issues. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so sometimes there can be some conflict, there can be some, some people are reluctantly going.

You know, other people are excited to go, but not excited to see some certain people, right? All those kinds of expectations and pressures and joys and a lot of personality. And especially when you're bringing your kids to family and all that kind of stuff. And so you can be thinking, I hope they behave here. Don't do this here. Hope they get along with those cousins, right? All those kinds of things, right? So there's a lot of things up in the air on this week. And that's why, when I was thinking about the podcast we want to do this week, I thought I really wanted to give them some tools to help them not only with their kids,

but also with themselves. Because a big part of what we do that's unique to our podcast is it is a parent first podcast. Yeah, giving the parent the tools, because then it trickles down. Yeah, and I wanted to say before we jump into it is if you're thinking and planning for the new year, because 2025 is fast coming, and you haven't sought out, maybe you've thought about seeking out some help for the family, and you're thinking, man, I wish we had some kind of coaching to help us going into 2025.

to really change some of the dynamics in our home. Maybe we do wanna get away from spanking and timeouts, but we just don't know how to do. We've read some books or listened to some things on social media and we wanna know more, reach out to me at kyle at artofraisinghumans.com and love to get that planned out with you to see if you're a good fit to start in 2025. Wouldn't that be great? Yeah. Yeah, so, but Sara, the thing that hit me is lately as I've been coaching some parents, there's been a couple common phrases.

And I'm sure the listeners who are listening right now, I've heard these phrases at times. think a lot of parents can relate to this one. And the two phrases I've been hearing is, you can't control me and I can do what I want. Even if they're not said exactly that way, you will feel that from kids, you know, especially depending on their personality, you can definitely feel that pushback of you're not controlling me. Yeah. Do what I want. Yeah. And I think that's very, you know, the first of all, I want to dive into why, why would a kid say that?

So when you hear that, we know behavior is all about communicating something, right? And when they say these words, many times I'm hearing it from kids that are like five, six, seven, eight, maybe upwards like 10, 11, somewhere around there. And they're saying these things typically when a parent is trying to ask them to do something, telling them to put up the video games or clean up their room or whatever, something that they don't wanna do. As a two-year-old, it comes off as no. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah, the no materials very similar. I can do what I want. You can't control me, you know, and so what is underneath that? Like what's what is a kid really saying when they say that? Well, they are kind of saying you can't control me. They're kind of saying I want to make my way. I want to make decisions. I want to have power. I want to have control, which is human nature. We actually even even a laid back person may give in a lot, but we all have this inner drive.

to say, can do things in this world. I can make decisions and it doesn't feel good to have some outside force controlling and managing me. Yeah, so what you're saying is there is this natural like power that the kid is trying to assert in that moment. They're trying to say, hey, I'm not you. I have separate desires than you.

and I maybe don't want to do the thing you're saying and you're telling me it's the most important thing. Well, I think the thing I want to do is more important. And so then we start to end up button heads, right? We together. we actually, I mean, we won't dive into this, but we want our kid to see themselves as separate. It's a very healthy and coming together is important, know, versus, yeah. So that's actually a good thing when you see your, even if your kid is saying, no, we can work with that.

but it's actually a good thing for them to be a separate human. Well, and we want that kid to actually know how to assert that power, right? Because there is something I think all of us understand that your child has a free will. they have a will of their own. it's, it's parenting isn't about asserting your will over theirs and just dominating their will. Right. And like you said, there are some kids who will let you do that. And there's other kids who will say, I'm not, I'm not given into that. I, and even those ones, like you said, who will let them do that.

I remember at times when I gave in, would still be thinking, like, if I totally wanted, I don't have to do this. Like you're trying to make me, I'll go along with it. External given, but internal there isn't, there's still the resistance. Or the kid who looks like they're giving in, but behind the scenes is not. it can look a lot of different ways, but we all kind of want that autonic. I can, I can.

make decisions and do things in my It's a natural part of independence. Like you said, it's okay. There's not a problem with that. Even like you're saying it to the two year old is already learning that. Like I can want things different than you. Okay. Now, but I want to dive into, we say that's kind of underlying that there's this underlying power struggle that's kind of happening when the kid is saying that and the kid is just letting you know, I have some power too. And what I've noticed Sara and not the time that you and I've worked with kids is there are typically a few ways kids will do that.

You know, kids will definitely show you they can do what they want and you can't control them when it comes to eating, when it comes to sleeping, when it comes to pooping, and when it comes to talking, right? These are four areas that I've seen those power struggles really intensify because you really just can't. You can't make a good talk. You can't make a kid eat the food you want. And all those areas, I think everybody listening, if it hasn't been all four, it's at least been a couple of those where you've realized

my gosh, I have no control over this situation. Those are really frequent power struggles. And it's not even that the kid is consciously or intentionally there. There's not always this. am going to exert my power here. It's something that is natural in us. And as parents, it benefits us to accept that and to not see it as something that I have to push down or it's not a negative.

It's sort of like a really quick flowing stream of water. That's not a bad thing. And I could try to resist the water, but I'm going to do much better to work with the Yeah, you're saying it's not a bad thing, though, Sara. I think a lot of parents get triggered because fear tells them it is. And the reason why, what fear will typically do, the response I typically feel in myself if I hear a kid say that, but also hear parents say, like I'll say, what did you say when the kid said that? Typically, they'll say, you have to eat that, or you have to go to school.

or we need to get this done. There'll be those kind of controlling phrases of you have to, you need to, this kind of external thing of saying, hey, if you won't do it because I said, the universe is saying, like this has to happen. You have to eat that food or you will die. So there is this extra pressure, fear we'll use those. And that's actually going to exasperate to me in that kid, that the kid's gonna be like, what? Like, why?

I think it is an opportunity. If you can think of a moment, the listeners, if we can pause and think of a moment where you have felt that it is this almost fear and your own powerlessness. You know, where you actually are wanting to act in the interest of your child, right? They need to go to the bathroom or eat or, or even go to soccer practice or something. You're thinking we've committed to this. You have to go to school. know, so we're even acting in their interests.

and it's our own fear and sense of powerlessness that usually is triggered inside of us. So it may look like anger, it may look like your own anxiety, but it's like pause for a moment and think, what is that? What chord is that striking in me when I see this in my child? Yeah, and what I notice, what I hear parents say, and I'm sure people are listening can resonate with this, is typically when a kid does that, when they try to get bigger and say, you can't control me, I can do what I want, that fear will come in there.

And then a lot of times we will naturally want to match and escalate with them and say, no, you have to, we'll start getting very rigid and saying a lot of these absolutes. Like you have to go to soccer practice. Well, you feel the need to get bigger than they are. like, you're big. have to get bigger because this situation needs to be brought under control. Yeah. Well, and almost like the situation is getting out of control. So I've now have to control you to control the situation. But, something I think is really interesting and really ties into

Thanksgiving. And ties into, because really we could have talked about so many things about Thanksgiving, right? I thought about we could do a whole episode on gratitude. We could do a whole episode on lots of topics that people would be doing since this is dropping the week of Thanksgiving. But I thought, man, no, this seems like for me, I'd rather hear a podcast that shows me how I could use Thanksgiving as a way to grow as a human being and also invite my kids into that growth. So when I was thinking about these phrases,

I was thinking how many of us are triggered by these phrases because in our own mind, we don't feel like we're in control. We feel like most of our lives is things that we have to do and not want to do. I go to work because I have to, because how would I pay my bills and get food and all those things?

I have even sometimes holidays. Yeah. Yeah. We have to travel. We have to go visit family. If we don't, everyone's gonna be so disappointed. much have to. Yes. When it comes to holidays, even gift giving can be full of that where it's supposed to be this joyous thing of picking a gift and giving it to people you care about. But then it comes with all these strings of, well, I mean, I've got to get this because of that. And I need to do, you know, it turns into that feeling that way. Yeah. Well, and the holidays, think are a time

that can be filled with great joy, but they can also be filled with great obligation and this sense of like, we have to go visit those family or we have to participate in this event or we have to get the house looking spotless and clean. So we feel powerless, we feel out of control. Yeah, so that's what I'm trying to say. I think that's the most triggering thing is I think when the kid says these things that are actually true, like the kid actually, you can't control the kid. Like you may think you can, but you can't. And then also the kid actually doesn't,

have to do this thing. You know, when the kid says these things, they're triggering because on one hand they are true. But on the other hand, we don't let ourselves think that, you know, we believe that we need to raise kids and understand there are things you have to do, whether you like it or not. You need to distance. of things that you just have to do. So the sooner you accept that you are powerless in these situations, the better it is for you. Yeah. And then your life will just flow easier, even though inside of us.

we wish we had the freedom to say what the kid is saying. And I'm even thinking about all the times when like Abby, our oldest was little, there was so many times it frustrated me as a new parent, how I would ask her to do things and she just refused to do that thing unless it was fun. And in my mind, I kept thinking, this is a lesson I need to teach her.

Life is not fun. Exactly. You'll just do things because they're fun. Yeah, you do the dishes because they need to get done. You go pick up the dog because you have to pick it up. that, yeah. And it was kind of a way I think our parents or just parents in general. Adults, mean school, right? There's all kinds of that. You just, you do it because it needs to be done. Yeah. And you have to go to school, right? And so, so I remember thinking everything can't be fun, Abby. Just do it, you know? But then I'd be watching some of these great shows that we really enjoy with our kids like Bluey, like

Daniel Tiger was one we liked, Doc McStuffins. There was a lot of really good kids programming we watched when they were little and still sometimes watch today. And what they were doing was making everything more enjoyable and fun. And I started thinking, why am I so opposed to turning these things into fun? Is there a way to make it a little bit better? Even if it's a rough thing to do, like mowing the lawn? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

or cleaning, maybe I turn on some music when I'm cleaning. Well, and then that got me thinking of how many things in life could I just personally change into want to's instead of need to's and have to's. Because I think most of us motivate ourselves to get up and do the day out of need to and have to. I need to get up, I have to get this done. Like if you listen, listeners, just listen to the way you talk to yourself, the way you talk to others. How often are you using need to or have to

as a way to motivate yourself to get a task done or to accomplish something. And that is a form of motivation, but we're kind of putting out there that, maybe we should check in with ourselves. Maybe there is an alternative to this. Yeah. And maybe the kid is offering that. Maybe the kid is saying, I'm resisting this thing that says I am somehow trapped by this belief system that I have to do this thing. Why? Because you told me to, right?

Like, like really what we're wanting is, mean, and ideally, Sara, we don't want a kid who just does things because they have to or need to. We're wanting to, and this is I'm asking, you know, the listeners to kind of raise their expectations is we want to raise kids. I know this may sound crazy, but they, do the dishes because they want to. Yeah. know, choosing we go to work, not because we have to, but we can even go to work because we're choosing to. And I'm even thinking, like I was thinking about this podcast day. was thinking, you know, like we go to work.

not because I have to, because I want to pay the bills. I go out and clean up the dog poop, not because I have to, because I want the yard to look nice. I just mowed the lawn yesterday. It's still so warm here. I'm still mowing the lawn. It's crazy in November, but because I want the lawn to look good. But I would say all the way through most of my life into my 30s, I was doing all that stuff begrudgingly, and it was actually more tiring because I told myself I have to do this.

Cause we can even do really hard things. There's all kinds of, we won't get into there's there's studies and all this stuff they're doing about, but about if you have a goal and even if it's a rough road to that goal, like a pretty yard is a goal and maybe it's rough to mow in 110 degree weather and things, know, but, but your, your look, your take on it of a half two versus a, is my goal and this is a rough road, but I can do this.

is much more fulfilling, it does different things inside of our brain. And so we want to offer that to our children. Yeah. And I'd even say that what you're talking about there is self-determination theory, where have to and need to are some of the lowest forms of motivation to do anything. I mean, it's not to say that there aren't things in life that we have to do, but it is a reframing of it. Some would say, you have to breathe. Well, I don't have to breathe. I want to live. So in order to live,

I have to breathe, right? So like you would say, I have to do that, but I'm doing it to achieve a goal I want. And if I can learn to turn it into a want to, learn to tap into that desire, that's actually not only gonna be more enjoyable, take less energy, but it's also gonna be more sustainable, you know? And inevitably we wanna raise kids who are helping around the house because they want to, not because anybody's made them do it, you know? And I know that might sound like pie in the sky, maybe some listeners are saying, that sounds impossible.

And it may be difficult, but I think that's what you want. You want a home that's like that. You know, you don't want a marriage where we're doing things as we have to. want to do it. We're serving each other because we want to, because we love each other. Right. And it is possible, even though I think for, if you haven't grown up that way, or that's not where you're the space you're in right now, there's maybe all kinds of things you're doing because you feel like you have to. So it may feel like that's very, very far from where you are and very hard to get there, but it is very possible.

and it's very rewarding. Well, I'm even thinking about a simple way of changing me, Sara. I remember when we first got married, I was still in old bad habits of being a bachelor. We're typically in the house where I had with other guy friends, you know, when we had a dishwasher that was clean and full. If I wanted a cereal bowl, I just reach in and grab the cereal bowl and close it up and hope one of my other guy friends would just, you know,

empty it at some point, right? And I remember when we first were married, there'd be several times where that would happen where I just wanted a bowl. I'd just grab it be like, I'll take care of that later. And then everybody I'd see you doing it and be like, okay, well, whatever. But then I started thinking, wait, wait, wait, wait, I, I want to empty that. I want, instead of getting the bowl and just benefiting me, I want it to be something where I get to benefit both of us, you know? And, and, and that's where I bring it back to this idea of Thanksgiving and all of this season of obligation.

You know, the season of all the work parties you got to go to all the different Christmas gifts you got to buy all the different things you got in lots of them you actually enjoy but sometimes the enjoyment sucked out of you because you have to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And so I wanted the listeners to kind of take a moment to step back and listen. Is there a little kid inside of you that's saying, I can do what I want. You can't control me. Right. And where's that voice coming from?

You know, has that voice been shut down and said, no, you need to do it. You have to do this because if not, you're not gonna be a good person or people are gonna be disappointed in you or people are gonna be upset with you. And so that's why you have to do it. Now I'm not even saying don't do it. yeah, you can still do it. I'm not saying those activities and those are bad. Yeah, but what it does is it unleashes this creativity inside of you to create these moments instead of being drug through the moment.

You know, if I, if I feel like, okay, it's not my favorite thing to go to this party or something, you know, but if I feel like, okay, I'm just going to go, I have to do it. It's an obligation. I got to do this and this far. I bring food, whatever. Or if you switch that and go, okay, I'm going to choose to do this. This is why I'm choosing to do it. then I'm, going into instead of being drug through it. And I am now creative in how that's going to look and how I'm going to do that. And I recognize my own freedom and choice in.

Yeah. And that feels a lot better. You're hitting two key points that I think get lost. Okay. So this is what I really want people to hear is when I demand that a kid does something because they have to or need to, which you just said is one, I don't give them an opportunity or give myself an opportunity to practice the power of making a choice, which, know, in a world right now, we have a lot of kids who feel anxious, right? A lot of kids who are really anxious about their future.

where anxiety comes from is the belief that I don't have a choice, that life is going to just happen to me, that I really can't, and the next thing you said there was create. I really don't have any power to create the life I want. I'm just hoping things go in a certain way to work out for me. And really you feel much less anxious when you understand how powerful you are, that at any given moment,

you are making choices to create the future you want. And you can do it. If someone else is always managing everything for you, kids actually grow up kind of believing, having this thing of, I mean, I got to be managed from the outside. had to have everyone else has make the decisions for me. I can't be relied on to make those choices and decisions. I can trust myself. Yeah. Yeah. And that can look like resistance or anxiety. You know, either way, it's the same message of I can't be trusted to make any decisions.

And yeah, sometimes it might be messy if you're handing this over to your kid and letting them make some choices. But from that comes self-confidence, comes realizing, you know, consequences and where things are going to lead and being able, I love the word creative. So being able to create my life and think about what I want and where I want to go and who I want to be. So what do we tell parents to do, honey? If you're asking a kid to do something and they say, you can't control me. I can do what I want.

So what is that first step? How does a parent instead of going, no, you have to, for instance, you're like, you have to go to school. You have to get, you know, what the answer isn't. We're not saying that you go, okay, you're right. What do you want to do today? Do you want to like, do you want to go to school today? Okay. No. Do you want to wear clothes? want to, once again, we're never doing permissive parenting or never. I can sound like that. And I get that because I could hear that early on too. Now I don't hear it that way, but early on I get definitely like, well, then the kids just never.

school because they're never gonna choose to go to school. know. So if they don't have to go and you're letting them just choose like the kids like so we're not saying that the kid just chooses whatever they're doing. So right. So take a step back from them though. Kids says that to you and your initial reaction, this fear comes up. You feel like, I've got to control this kid. I got to this kid know you have to go to soccer practice. You have to do X, Y, and Z, whatever. We made this commitment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's first step? Well, what does a parent do in that moment? I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but the first step is always me.

Yeah. So if I have any energy I have about it, that kid is going to feel that immediately. So I have to tell myself, this is not an emergency. Yeah. Right. I've got to calm myself down. Rather it be it. Maybe it triggers anger. Maybe it triggers, it triggers anxiety, worry, whatever my, no, now this is going to take forever. And this is going to be a big thing. if he doesn't go this time, he's never going to go again. Every time he'll not want to go and all that's going to, that's going to show up. The kid is going to know it, even if you're trying to hide it.

And then all that's going to do is add fuel to the fire of whatever's going on inside of the child. So it starts with me relaxing, calming myself. Just like I said, with the water, I'm not going to try to stop that flow. I am going to go, I'm going to jump into it. You know? So what I would say, I mean, I'm totally with you on that is I think we have two choices in that moment. one choice, either I can accept what the kid is saying and start looking for solutions or I can resist what the kid's saying.

and see all the ways that is problematic, right? And then I'm gonna wanna resist the kid and I'm gonna wanna change the kid as opposed to realizing the only one I can change in this moment is me. No matter what that kid is saying, you are not gonna be successful changing that kid. You've got to step back and just accept what is it the kid is actually saying. So the kid is actually saying something that is totally true, right? Like, I mean, I know this sounds...

Just take a moment. The kid actually doesn't have to go to practice. The kid actually doesn't have to go to school. The kid doesn't actually have to, but that's actually not what the kid is saying. You know, I mean that that is the truth. What the kid is just saying is I want my preferences and desires and all that stuff to be taken into consideration. I want to be able to know how do I co-create this moment rather than you just creating it for me? Yeah, I want to have some power here because it feels horrible to be powerless. So right now

saying no feels like the way they're going to get powered. But we can actually show them lots of ways to have power in the situation and with your school example, still go to school. Yeah, if I can give an example too, Sara, I remember back in the day, my parents were big sticklers on going to school attendance is really important. I always wanted to go to school. I wanted to get the perfect attendance award and things like that. All through elementary school, I liked that. But then when I got in the middle school, there were times where things were going on and I was overwhelmed with schoolwork or whatever and I just wanted to break. So there were times where I would fake sick.

You know, I act like I was sick. Classic. If you've ever seen Fields Bueller's Day Off or something like that, right? It classic stuff. So I would try to get out of going to school. And I remember this really freeing moment where I, some tornadoes had happened here in Oklahoma the night before and I didn't get any of my homework done. So the next morning I was going to fake sick and stay home and get my homework done. You know? And so I remember I faked sick.

I even was like kind of nauseous and about to throw up. And my mom was like, you don't seem actually sick. I bet it's just the tornadoes. I bet it's just the anxiety of that. And then I was like, no, mom, I can't go. And my mom said, what is going on? Like my mom got curious. What is going on? How come you are not wanting to go to school? And I said, because I didn't do the schoolwork and all this. And my mom said, okay, you can stay home today and get that done. So make sure you finish up. Don't make this a habit. But in the future, you don't have to lie to me. You don't need to be fake. You don't have to fake sick.

I know fear comes up in lot of parents and thinks the kid will take advantage of that. I just never did. all the kids that I've talked to about this and encouraged parents to take that kind of situation and very listen, listen to the kid, be curious. The kids just don't. Like the kids listen to it and say, wow, okay, I could just ask, right? It's a conversation because really in all reality is if my mom didn't give me the freedom to do that, I was just gonna take it anyway. I would just continue finding ways to appear more and more sick.

to be able to or lie better. And it actually becomes more of a thing that way. More of a power struggle, more of, yeah. And instead my mom gave me the power to create something with her instead of trying to do something against her or behind her back. Cause I assumed she wouldn't care that she wouldn't care that my homework wasn't done. I needed to lie. But in that moment, I remember thinking, this changes our relationship. I can just come ask you, you know? So going back to when the kid is saying this to your face, it goes back to I've got to go, am I going to accept this moment or am going to resist this moment?

And then I need to really be curious and try to get to the core of what is the reason the kid isn't wanting to do this. And that applies to anything, cleaning the room, doing chores, whatever it might be, the sooner we can get to just being curious, the child will open up and we can actually get to what's what's going on because there's the surface no happening, but there's always something behind that. So we want to be really curious. What is behind that? Because that's what needs to be addressed. Children generally know, you know,

things need to be cleaned or the dog needs to be walked or I need to go to school. You know, we, we think we, often try to sell them on it, but they actually kind of know. So there's something else to the story. And that's what we need to address. We want to get there quickly and we want to get there with them. And that ties into Thanksgiving again. So I would love for listeners, if there is something in you as you're planning this week, if you're listening to this on a Monday and we typically drop this, and especially if you think there's friends who

you'd like them to listen to this, send it to them as well. But take a moment and think, with some of these things as I'm going, this anxiety maybe about the family gathering, maybe there's anger about it, maybe there's frustration, whatever those feelings might be, am I accepting what's happening and looking for solutions or am I resisting what's happening and looking at problems? Am I telling myself, it doesn't matter if you wanna go, you have to go?

It doesn't matter what you want, you know? Like, you don't have control over this, you know, these other people. I want you to take a step back and understand that everything you are doing is your choice, you know? Whether you go or don't go, whether you spend an hour or a whole day, right? It's all your choice. And if you are gonna choose to do something that is unenjoyable, that's okay. Just own that you chose it. No one is making you or controlling It'll feel better. Even doing something you don't wanna do, going to that...

that get together that you don't wanna do, if you lean into, okay, I'm gonna choose to go, that's gonna feel way better to your body, your mind and how you approach the whole event than being drunk there. I remember even Sara, when we first were going as a married couple to some of our family gatherings and we felt like we had to go to both dinners. We had to do, know, thanks even your house and my house, right? And we'd come back just like, my God, just so stuffed and we'd exhausted. And then we made a choice like we don't.

have to do that. We'll just tell one family will go one year and another family will go another year, right? And then also even when we would go sometimes we do what lot of families do. We leave and be like, what's going on with this family member or why this person, we just the whole way home. It wouldn't feel very enjoyable because maybe we'd be complaining or criticizing. And I remember one thing, Stephen, we like, I don't want that anymore. I don't want that for our family. I want us to go and purposely choose somebody in the family to just enjoy, you know? And once we made that choice on the way home, it was like,

It was much more fun. We're like, I got to talk to this person or that person and man, you know they're doing now is they're doing this. And we found that because of that choice, because we created the moment the way we wanted to, instead of it just happening to us, there was so much more joy available to us in those family gatherings. So I want to encourage you, if you're going to family or if you're not, if you're choosing to stay home or you're choosing to go, just take a moment and own that this life is something you are creating. It's not.

happening to you. It's happening with you. And I would encourage you to help your kids know that too, that this life is something they are creating with you. Sure, there's going to be things that you see or have tos and need tos, but those are actually very minimal. That most of your life is a want to. It's about what do you want to do with your life? What do you want to do with your family? And just take this week to really maybe get together with your kids and family.

and spouse or whatever, whoever's with you and decide what that's going to look like for your family over this Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday. Don't make it a bunch of obligation stuff where you're upset, anxious, know, feeling whatever it is you're feeling negative wise, but understand this is a time that you can create with your family. Yeah. Be empowered to create it and have fun doing it. Yeah. So I hope this podcast was helpful to you for this week and we hope you have

a happy Thanksgiving. Thank you so much for listening with us. Happy Thanksgiving.