Episode 109

Welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. And I'm Sara. And today, Sara, before we jump into the topic, I want to just send another reminder. We're still trying to reach that 100. I don't know, maybe what time this was.

Maybe we've reached it. Okay. But still go check it out. See if we've reached a hundred yet. And if we haven't add yours to it, that would be really fun. Maybe you could be the one who does the hundredth comment, hundreds review, right? That'd be pretty awesome. Check it out. So stop right now. Go look what number are we at? Add yours. Or if you've already added one, tell your spouse to throw one on there. Let's get it to a hundred. Come on. We got this. Okay. Okay. But in today's topic, Sara, I wanted to, I don't know what I'm going to title yet, but I'm thinking I want to tell, are we there yet?

Right? Have you ever heard that phrase before? Uh, yeah.

There are movies. There are so many. Yeah. When you're riding in a car and there's parents and there's kids and the kids are, are we there yet? And you left five minutes ago. Yes. Yeah. And so every road trip. Yeah. And I remember as a kid, that was a constant thing. It's a joke. Like, are we there yet? Are we there yet? And then parents going soon, we'll be there soon. We're all there. Stop asking. I was so sick of this, you know? And so just constantly, are we there? Are we there? So the reason why I'm titling it this Sara, because I know recently we did a road trip. You know, we did a road trip.

trip up to Colorado one of the places we really enjoy going and that trip takes about

It takes about 10 hours or more right around there, you know? And something that I was thinking about as I was helping all these other families, these parents, these kids, they're coming back from spring break trips, you know? Yeah, it was just with spring break. So a lot of travel for people. Yes, so there's a lot of people who are traveling. And I was hearing all these different stories about people who would never do a road trip with their kids because it would just be miserable, right? And so several different parents were saying that, you know? And I think I would have been in that camp a while back, you know? I think I would have thought that when the kids

were little because there were a few road trips we took and it was rough. You put kids who want to run around in a car for many hours. That is bound to be challenging. Yeah and I thought I would use the road trip kind of metaphor because as I reflected upon what these other clients were saying these other parents that we were talking to how much I was noticing the stark contrast between how we feel about road trips now that we actually are

kind of, I'd love to go tour the whole United States, you know, be able to go reach all the different States and obviously not Hawaii and Alaska, but, but the other ones and to be able to drive to those with the kids. And we did that one trip that was 18 hours back from Orlando and it went fantastic, you know, and we weren't planning on doing that in one leg, but we did it. We wound up needing to keep going. So we kept going, did it in 18 hours. I felt good. It seemed like the family felt good. It was a great experience. And it started thinking like, man, this is really,

really shifted for me. I really enjoy the road trips, right? And so I'm wanting to use that as a metaphor of something bigger. So for all of you who have listened to our podcast, or for those of you who are new, something that Saraand I really believe is different about what we talk about with parenting is I really think parenting is a transformative journey, meaning that these situations with our kids are mostly about shaping and forming us first.

and then shaping and forming them as a secondary outcome, right? Because then we model to them, you know, the kind of humans that we have now been formed into, but it really is through these kind of conflicts or these situations that we are shaped and formed. And I think one of the big ones is this idea that's really, in our culture, it's a big issue where...

I was always raised this way too, Sara. I don't know how you get feedback, but that the destination is more important than the journey. Meaning like the reason why we keep asking, are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there? Because the whole point of going on the road trip is to get there, you know? And it's almost like the in -between, the 10 hours it takes to get to Colorado. It's like, oh my gosh, how can we?

get through this as quick as possible, you know? And it's almost frustrating or stressful, or we just want to check out of it, you know? Because the whole goal is the destination. And I think what road tripping with the kids has taught me and has helped me in every area of my life is that the journey is just as important, if maybe not even, I might say even more so, than the destination. Sometimes we have those goals in life or...

I mean, I want to jump into stages, but you think I got to get through the terrible twos or the rough teenage years or what the subject in school or this, whatever the phase might be or the thing might be. We, as humans often think, I just got to get through this. There is my goal and I just got to get through it. Instead of noticing and valuing all that the journey is offering. And I think you hear that.

that more where it's not just the goal but it is the journey yes not just the destination you'll lose a lot yeah just focused on the end point yeah and I think sometimes I think when we had kids I was just thinking of the destination there was these constant like okay we have a kid awesome okay now that kid can sleep great it was just like it was like there was this they're walking they're potty trained they're eating solid foods in school yeah there's all you're kindly like for me sir I came into thinking about these mile markers

and I thought parenting was about the destination. It was just get them to that destination.

alive, safe. It's also like adulthood, right? We have a checklist. Yes, exactly. They need to say please and thank you. Check. Yes. They need to. No more diapers. Awesome, we did it. Yes, like they're now peeing in the toilet. And riding a bike. Yes. Yeah, we kind of have this checklist of successful parenting, which is what we're going for. They're adults. They're doing well. Check. So I think a big shift for me, and this didn't happen until maybe we had all three of them. I think maybe after maybe Brennan was born, is I started seeing it more. And I'm

telling you these road trips are very pivotal in doing that was changing from just trying to get to these milestones and instead soaking up and enjoying the journey and really seeing parenting is not a destination. Parenting is a journey that we are co -creating with each other as husband and wife but also with our kids and it's not something to get through. Yeah. Yeah. It's like on a road trip.

If you just focus on the destination, you might, you know, when you're rounding the corner, there's in parenting, there's constant corners and turns and cliffs and, you know, all these rivers to forge. But, um, if you just are focused on that, then you miss the beauty and miss all those like, wow, look at that mountain. Wow. And cause it's going to go by and you hear people say that, right? You hear like you better enjoy those, enjoy them while they're little enjoy. And that's what they're, they're saying, right? They're saying, I know it's hard, but you want to soak this in cause it's going to go by just like,

like a road trip, it's gonna go by and you won't be back. Yeah.

And for me, I mean, to all the listeners, this is a cheat code. I mean, this is, I feel like it's like a cheat code to life. So it's a way to actually win at life. I think you end up losing at life when you think it is about the destination, because you, then you spend like little moments of like, oh, we did it. No more diapers or like they finally slept there. And there's moments of joy, just like little fleeting moments. But then it's, you know, as a parent, there's just another trip we got to go on another destination. So.

You're constantly seemingly metaphorically on the road of life, just trying to like, okay, when we get to that city, we can finally enjoy it. And then it's like, oh no, a week later, we got to do another road trip. And you're constantly doing so the cheat code is for all of you play video games is, is kind of like this code you get where now you're going to be more likely to have success in that game. You know, and I want to give this cheat code to all of our listeners that if you can instead see parenting as a journey and not a destination,

Not only did it start to change me in my parenting Sara, but it changed me as a human to where...

I started seeing everything I was going through, whether it was work, whether it was friends, whether it's getting older. I mean, I've blown out my knees and my ACLs, and at times I want to just get to a destination of my knees are better. But then it was like, no, it's a journey. There's something there to learn about having these sore knees. Or even I'm thinking of seasons. Sara, I used to like, certain seasons are my favorite. We love the fall, right? And I would get upset that the fall wasn't longer in Oklahoma. And then, oh, now winter's here. And it was like,

summer yeah that one's still a journey I'm trying to embrace yeah because it can get so hot here and it's not it's not as fun but long but for every listener you understand that you've got certain seasons that you just want them to go and disappear and if you're not careful they will

And I know you're like, good. But it's like, but now there's still joy in that season. There's still something to learn and grow from and memories to be made that you can never make. Like, even though we don't like summer, we have access to a pool here in our neighborhood and so many great memories at the pool, right? And it's really about choosing how you're going to.

The time's gonna go by, the journey's gonna happen. How do I actually want that to be if I'm just surviving it? That's gonna do different things in my relationships, in my childhood, my kids' memories, and my memories of my parenthood.

versus, you know, am I just surviving the journey or am I embracing and loving and making the most of the journey? So for me, summer and the pool, I am trying to intentionally reframe how I think about this summer instead of just, okay, we've got these hot months coming, we just gotta get through them and then we'll get to the beautiful fall. It's really about what I want to soak this in, not just get through it. Yeah. And I just think it's a real problem. There's things to soak in. And that's a real problem in our culture here in America, I think. And if you're raising

kids in America right now and you're listening to this, it's the is this constant of let's just get to the end. Let's get to that destination. We don't really cherish the journey or the process. I mean, lots of times even in school, the way that it's just about the finished product. It's not about actually what it took to get there, you know? And so early on, what we were tempted to do, and I felt myself saying it and you saying it too, is I can't wait until they are just

in that. Yeah can't wait till they're sleeping through the night. If you have little ones you know you're saying I and so we would say that I can't wait till they're sleeping or I can't wait till they're out of diapers or I can't wait till they can start talking. I can't wait till they can walk. I can't wait till they can ride a bike. Whatever it is you want to add into that right. We found ourselves saying that a lot and just we even would talk about with other parents and other parents would say you know but

I, in this, in this shift, if you listen to that, that can be really harmful and really cause, I think some toxic fruit to start to grow. Um, because then you're constantly wanting to move through whatever stage you were talking about, Sara, you know, we w w w w every stage, you know, is coined lots of times as the most difficult stage, you know, it's like the terrible twos and then you've got, okay, we've got to get through that stage now. And then it'll be like, we'd be like, Oh, twos weren't that bad. These threes dude, you know, and when it was all,

always us wanting to get through that stage because we thought there'd be some relief on the next side. But then once we got there, there'd be its own set of difficulties, right? Yeah. And so this I found, it stole my joy because it made it harder for me to be present.

it felt like life was more stressful and frustrating because I couldn't make it move faster. Like I wanted to just like, the more we just kept pushing, maybe we could make the stage happen quicker. Maybe we could get more upset at the kid and whatever it is, the attempt we're doing to like motivate that moment to get through. And then I would feel some sadness and regret when that stage was over, which was weird too. I'd be kind of like, oh, when Ellie got through that last stage, it was, you know, whatever she's in, it's like, oh, that's our last one. We won't have any more of those, you know?

And some of that, whether it was fondness and gratefulness, but then also sadness and regret that it was over. Yeah, I think.

my reflection on that with our oldest, I was really focused on the milestones. I knew them. I had done a lot of work with kids and helping them achieve their milestones. And especially in the area of sleep, I was pretty tired and was definitely trying to survive. Sometimes I was working and, you know, up at night with my infant and things like that. And though there was plenty of sweet moments, you know, you know, you know, as a parent where you're holding them and it was sweet.

There was a lot of please sleep. I'm exhausted. I got to get up for work in two hours, you know, those kinds of moments too. And so that did shift. We had done some, you know, we had even talked about some of this. So with our youngest, that's, that's the reefer. I had gotten into a space of this isn't going to last forever. And I get to hug and cuddle and enjoy this sweet moment. And, and so even in the midst of exhaustion, I get to hug and cuddle and enjoy this sweet moment.

And not like I did it perfect all the time, but I was in a much different space of trying to soak in and see those moments. Cause in here, my, the first time my brain was in that survival, that limbic system, that, Oh no, I'm never going to sleep again. I'm so tired. How am I going to work tomorrow? How am I going to, I'm so exhausted, you know, and, and, and my focus was on that. So it almost took me to an even worse spot where on the other one, I was still very, very exhausted by our.

But because my focus had shifted to, but I get to hold and enjoy these moments because she's not going to be this little forever. And this isn't going to, I'm not going to be holding my 20 year old cuddling, you know, like rocking, you know, so it's like, enjoy this little baby while I have this. And I was much more in a different space. So it definitely helped me get through it through the journey. And I enjoyed the journey much differently. I think using the sleep, since that was a big deal. I think it's.

that's a great example of growth in myself was with Abby it really was I was just mad I was just like when are you gonna sleep through the night for goodness sakes I just be so upset every time she woke up you know are you serious still you know with Brennan I was a little more chill and was kind of like okay just just push through it Kyle you can do this you know and it actually was kind of

surprised at how I could do so well with such little sleep. I was kind of like, this is pretty remarkable that I actually feel okay at work, you know, and I only slept three hours. Whereas with Ellie, it was like, okay, don't just push through. Like you said, embrace it. And there was this moment where, um, because I was more open and receptive, I wasn't resisting the moment. I was accepting it as it was and believing the moment was exactly as it needed to be. And I'm holding Ellie and I remember being with her and I was just thinking, huh,

I wonder what what I could get out of this moment as I'm sitting there it's late at night I'm tired and I feel like something said to me in my heart was how would she ever know you love her unless these moments happened and how would you ever know that you love her?

unless these moments happen. These Kyle are how those things get built in you. It's these sleepless nights as you're holding her. This is how your love for her grows and is transformed. And if she just went to bed right as you want it to every time, you would never have to really face that and actually have that be cultivated in you. That loving somebody is in the darkness of night when you're exhausted. That's how love is grown. And that to me was, I started to enjoy the journey rather than just

the destination. Instead of us saying, are we there yet? Are we there yet? It's like we're exactly where we need to be. And let's just be here. Yeah. Look around and see all the things that this moment has. And depends where you want to put your focus. I can put my focus on the negative things of that moment. Because every moment is going to have both, right?

just either or. And so I could do that or I can choose to put my focus over here. I decide what I'm going to focus on and that's going to change the whole journey for me depending on what I'm focusing on. Yeah, I want to say this Saraand I hope I'm not saying this in regards to any criticism of any parents choices but I think the place you see it a lot at least the kids I'm helping is lots of times the journey even from home to soccer practice.

It's just about the destination. Lots of times kids are being given devices to then kind of check out sometimes, right? Where the kid is gonna be, the kid will just say, hey, I don't want to be bored at all between here to there. And I just think that's a missed opportunity. I think it's an opportunity of connection. It's an opportunity of talking to our kids about their day. It's an opportunity where you can create, going back to our last episode we did a few weeks ago about changing the dance, you can change this dance.

the car ride, even Sara, sometimes we see now a more common thing is in the grocery store where kids are using devices just to get through the grocery store, right? And I understand why the parents doing it, but I think it's a misunderstanding. It's starting to teach the kid some habits that I need to avoid the discomfort. Yes. Escape. Yeah. I need to escape the possibility of discomfort. Trust me. I was tempted to do that at times as well at the grocery store. We just wanted to get things done, checking off our list. But then as I started to see this, the grocery store is a great time for connection. And I,

I give a lot of parents tips about how we made that really fun where they were super helpful where they were doing missions for me and getting certain items and going down there and they were learning all types of skills how to ask for help from somebody to reach something and there's all these cool things are happening so the kids didn't even think that was something they needed to escape from they were it was something to embrace so I really believe that even getting groceries the goal there isn't just to get them and bring them home there is a moment of connection there the drive to and from whatever activity you're doing that is a moment that could be embraced.

And it can bring you closer to the family. And it's really fun. Yes. It's really fun. And there are definitely times where that can be a tool. And I think it's important to look at your intention behind it. And no fault to, hey, sometimes we've all got to just get through a moment because we're having a really hard time. So no judgment on that. But if you're in a space where you can think, huh.

You know, I'm going to embrace this moment differently. And sometimes we might say, okay, I'm going to use this tool and my intention isn't to just escape. I'm using this tool for this reason. But then there's other times we fall into where we are escaping a moment. And then there's other times we feel like, you know what? I'm going to embrace this journey. I'm not going to escape it. Let's do this because there's lots of adventure and fun and connection and wonderful nuggets in this, in any moment you're in.

Let's find them. Let's create that. Let's build those memories. Yeah. And that could look like opportunity. That could look like you blasting songs in the car as you're all singing as a family. It could be all kinds of car. Yes. Oh my gosh. You know, so many would you rather all sorts of fun ones. So many fun memories, you know, and we're wanting to teach the kids that the journey is just as important as the destination. How we get there matters. So I'm thinking as a kid, it was a real

common thing Saraparents taking their kids to church and they would show up all buttoned up and dressed nice but the whole car ride was horrible and they were yelling at it and but there that was like in my mind yeah but at least they got to church the destination was important but like the journey how you got there is really important you know and and so I think a lot of families struggle with that because this isn't something that that we're modeling that the journey is important. It's a hard thing for us yeah I mean I think even

I actually as you were talking I was thinking about some of our kids school projects some of them take months and it's a lot of work and I think sometimes we do better than others but just the how are we gonna do this work memorizing or creating a science fair project or whatever you're gonna do is it just okay let's get this done now okay get this thing done get the project done but there's there's the option of okay how can we do this if we're gonna work on memorizing something

something. What fun thing can we do as we're memorizing? How can I work with you on your science fair project to be a moment of connection? And, and your kid goes back, I remember when I did my science fair project, it was so fun. We did this, this and you know, all of those are opportunities and not, we're not going to take all those opportunities. We're not going to do it all, but just you can have in your head, huh, this, this is an opportunity. I could do something different with this journey. So if you're interested in doing this with your kids, I got, we got three things. I would have three,

things you may have more to add Sarabut three thoughts in particular that we started doing ways in which you started approaching the journey. Number one, we committed to each other that we would no longer say I can't wait until. I remember we had some intentional conversations like we're not gonna say that because we actually can wait.

You know, we can, we want, we want, we don't want to rush it. Yes. We don't, I mean, I don't know where you're at in your stage of parenting, but it goes by so fast. It does. We don't want to just, we don't want any of it to go any faster. So get in. Yeah. And if you listen to people who are saying that they'll have complaints about every stage. So there'll be a stage of twos have problems, three, four, and then, Oh, the teenage years. And like every stage has like, yeah, they all have their own sets of difficulties, but I, I'm not going to let myself think or say, I can't wait until. So just being,

disciplined to I want to go through this I want to do number two we talk about and prepare for the journey with excitement instead of dread so I know when we started wanting to change us on road trips for instance we started going how could we make these roads was fun you know and not just ways of getting on devices and escaping how can we so you were really great Saraabout you know reading about different games that we could be playing different of course everyone knows about the license plate game and the output game but there's all these ways that we could play together as a family.

that the kids like they were excited about the road trip because they wanted to do those games. Yeah and we would get different get something new you know. Kind of some novel. Yeah or we would pack snacks they didn't normally have. Yeah yeah yeah. And so it was all about what's next and what they were excited about each stage of the journey and what was unfolding in the games we were gonna play and things like that.

And the third one was we reflect on the journey with the kids in a fun way. But we don't just talk about the easy times. We talk about the hard times too. I mean, there was a part of the journey on the way back from Colorado one time. Our tire messed up. It almost fell off. We could have died, right? Yeah, it pulled over on the side of the road. Yeah, it was scary. Yes. But it was a memory that we could look back and go, do you remember how we handled it though? That was really cool. And we were stuck out in the grasslands of Kansas for a while. If you've ever been to Kansas, there's a while there where it's just grass. But we got to know a guy who had

ended up towing our car and he was a nice guy and the kids got to ask him about his craziest tow truck experiences and because they weren't like oh this and I typically would have modeled that like oh not another thing instead it was like hey we're here there's a guy here towing our thing let's talk to him right and so the kids were talking to him and he was he was having a great time sharing these stories about weird incidents when he had to tow somebody you know and it was those stories were so fun to talk about on the way home instead of like well that's

that just took two hours off our day and that, you know, now we're going to get home even later. Yeah. All the money. Well, and so those are the three right there. Number one is commit to no longer saying I can't wait until number two, talk and prepare for the journey with excitement. And then three reflect on the journey on the good times and the hard times, right? Both. Um, and I, I, I was, I was also thinking about this Sara, cause I remember on the way back from our last trip or on the way to, I think we were talking with the kids about what they enjoy most about our trips to college.

And what really stood out to me is, you know, Abby was talking about friends we were gonna see, and Brandon was talking about things we were gonna do and friends we were gonna see, things I expected them to say. The mountains, we love that. But then Ellie kind of blew me away when she said she likes the car ride. And I was like, why would you like that? Depending on where we're going, 10 to 12 hour car ride. Why would you like the car ride? You're six or seven years old that time, right? And she said, because it's the only time when all five of us are together for that long.

Yeah, we're all sitting together. I'm really focused on being there. Yeah, we're not checking out and doing other things and I thought...

is a unique time, but that she really looked forward to the drive there and the drive back. And that was her favorite thing about going to Colorado. And I was like, wow, that really felt like a good, like we've succeeded. Like she enjoys the journey, right? But inevitably, it kind of bringing it back, there's some basic ending ideas to summarize is for us, we want our kids to know that how you get somewhere is just as important as getting there.

We hear stories all the times of kids that are driving to church and soccer games, and they're just wanting to check out. And too often in our culture, we're trying to avoid the journey at any cost. And kids are driving to and from these things, and they're just not engaging with the family. And lots of times, everybody's checked out, even the parent. They're all checked out, right? Everyone's got their headphones on. It's a real common thing, and we're teenagers who've got that on. But the problem with that is that resisting the moment.

never brings about good results. It causes more stress, anger, and frustration. And what we know is that it's acceptance of the moment that actually helps change the moment. So acceptance of the moment, when you do that with your kids as a family, you're going to grow resilience, you're going to have more joy, and you're going to feel empowered.

to actually co -create the ending to that moment you want, right? Instead of letting the moment just happen to you, like the drive has just happened. We have to go across. It takes 10 hours. We have to do this. You don't have to do that. Like we can embrace it and really create something beautiful in that moment. And this goes along with that statement of what you resist will persist. So if I keep resisting it, if I keep resisting the moment, it's going to continue to be this horrible thing that I want to push through. Yeah. That phase.

sleeplessness, even temper tantrums, the big emotions, you know, any of that. Yeah. And I'm thinking also, even like on a roller coaster, what I'd encourage every listener is instead of resisting the moment, like we were riding the roller coaster, gripping it and just waiting till the ride's over. And then you never enjoy the ride, right? Instead, put your hands up, just let it go, right? And just really let the roller coaster take you. And it doesn't mean it's still not scary. It doesn't mean it's still not like, but it also can be exciting. It can be thrilling, you know? And.

And that's what I want road trips to be like, is just us putting our hand up and saying, let's enjoy the ride, right? Or even hard times when people are going through sickness or when people are struggling with school or when you're in a stage where you're not getting any sleep. These are moments when I want to accept the moment as it is, believing that it has something good for all of us to get from it. Yes, because they will. They'll have something and you want to look for it. Yeah. And I want to wrap it up, Sara, with just, I put down on my notes that I started to love early mornings with the kids.

There was a time where I'd like to sleep in and I was frustrated that the kids would wake up so early. And then even when I started waking up early, I purposely wanted it to be my time and I was annoyed that they kept making it about them. But then as I started to embrace the fact that I had these kids waking up early, I began to like create all of these really nice moments. Like I have so many memories of Abby and I sitting in chairs watching the sunrise.

and us talking about our days and what we wanted to do that day or how the previous day went and so many sweet moments with Brandon and Ellie in the mornings where I'm just holding them and so I want to encourage you to think about maybe just one space in your life where you feel like you are just waiting for the destination and you're resisting the journey and instead just see how you can embrace the journey, accept it as it is, believe it is enough.

and then really see what it can do in your family and how you can model that to your kids. Maybe it is just that little car ride to and from soccer practice or to and from church or to and from school, but embrace it and really.

Like get the gold that's in that moment, mine it for the value it has and see how that shifts the dynamics. So I hope this conversation was helpful and expanded your ideas about what the journey could look like. And please share this podcast with anybody you think it'd be helpful. And we look forward to talking to you soon. Have a great day.

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are you tired of hearing that in your family on your trips to and from this, you know, like events that you're going through on road trips, you're going on. Does it seem like the journey is taking forever and everybody just wants to get to the destination? And how could you possibly change that in your family? Is there a way to have a family where we all actually like the journey or at least embrace it for the good and the bad?

bad that it has to offer us? Well, in today's podcast, share, Saraand I want to share with you the three steps we took to just change that in our family where, where those sleepless nights, instead of them being something we resisted and fought against and couldn't wait till they change how we were able to embrace it. And in embracing it, we found it made us into the mom, dad, the man, woman, the husband, wife, and the parents that we actually wanted to become.

And without those stages, without embracing those, we would never be shaped and formed into the human beings we actually wanted to be. So, Are We There Yet is the name of this podcast, and we hope you join us and enjoy the journey in this conversation.