Episode 140

What Do You Do When You
Have Messed Up as a Parent

December 30, 2024

In Episode 140, Kyle and Sara, LPC’s, discuss how to turn a failed parenting moment into an opportunity to learn and grow. Kyle shares a recent moment when he got mad at the kids and reverted back to using shame and fear to change their behavior. We discuss the steps we took as a family to turn this situation into something that actually brought us closer as a family. We know that parents run into so many opportunities just like this because of all the stress and expectations we face during Christmas and New Year. We want to remind everyone that parenting isn’t about doing it perfectly, it is about growing and learning from our mistakes and creating the family we want with our kids.

Welcome to the last podcast of 2024. And man, have you felt like in 2024, you messed up, made mistakes. Have you felt like just in the past week or two over this Christmas time or holiday season for you, that you've blown up at the kids and yelled at them and then, you know, done things that you're like, I thought I was over that. I, man, I wish I would stop doing that. Well, we can relate.

And in this podcast, I wanted to share a specific moment that happened just a few weeks ago where I did exactly what I would tell you not to do, right? The ways in which I coach parents to handle situations differently, I still sometimes fall back in to all ways of doing it. And so we wanted to end 2024 with just this like picture of like, we're not trying to be perfect parents here. We really just want to be on a journey with you.

towards becoming healthier parents who know what to do when we mess up and when we fail. Why? Because our kids need to know what they can do when they mess up, fail, and make mistakes, right? Life isn't over because you fail. So I want this podcast to not only equip you with what to do, the steps we take specifically after we make a mistake to really get good out of those failures, but then also to just fill you

with encouragement that we're in the same boat. We're not doing everything right, nor is that our goal. So I really think you're gonna enjoy this podcast as I share this moment with you and walk you through the steps and hopefully it will help you repair some of the ways things have been broken or ruptures have happened in your relationship with your kids over this Christmas break. So we are so excited going into this new year. Happy for you to join us. Please take a moment if you haven't already to...

pause, leave a comment, leave a review, very helpful to us. And also be thinking about what your parenting journey is going to look like in 2025. We are planning some fantastic podcasts to help you out. We are going to start the year out with a great interview next week. It's going to be amazing. And then we're going to probably do some series coming up to the first part of the year. We haven't totally fleshed it out yet as a result of the recording this podcast, but look forward to it as we want to give these the specific tools to help you be able to create the family you're wanting in 2025.

Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hi, I'm Sara. And Sara, we're just a few days away. It's almost 2025. Yeah, I know. Can't believe that. Hasn't it gone by so quick? It has, yeah. Right, I bet every listener All those old people who say it goes fast, they're right. I know, dude. Yeah, it seems like this whole parenting thing, it's gone by pretty fast, right? The kids are growing up so quick, but another year is almost over.

And you and I were thinking about, know, last week, if you didn't hear our podcast, we gave these five great steps to kind of help you have a better Christmas time, holiday season with your Five kind of intentional things to do. Yeah, to be more successful. But you know what I bet happened? Because I know it happens to us too. I bet people messed up. I bet there was times when people blew up at their kids. They spoke to their kids in ways they didn't want to, right? They didn't like how they treated them in certain moments, you know? Yeah.

And it's conflict that they really didn't want to have. and I remember a few weeks before, you know, a couple of weeks ago, we also had like the messy family podcast couple on here. And you and I are all about, not about teaching perfect parenting. You know, we're about being honest and vulnerable with listeners and people we coach that we're messing up. You know, we make mistakes. It's more of like, we're journeying with you. We're doing this too. And it's going to be imperfect. Yep. Well, Sara changing.

changing a family history or legacy is hard. Rewiring your brain is super difficult. We want to just go back to what was done to us in both good ways and bad ways. And it's really hard to be able to create new ways of doing it. so a lot of times our imagination can't see how could that situation been done differently. Because we get caught up to it and in those moments we slip back to old habits.

and then we beat ourselves up about it and get mad at ourselves. I'm sure every listener can relate to this and I bet it happened once if not more than once over the past week or so. Yeah, just all the ways that we are human and we don't want to use guilt and then we wind up using guilt or we don't want to be inconsistent parent and then we're inconsistent parenting. You all the things that you intend to do and then you're like, I missed it again. And so we wanted to spend this podcast, one particular incident happened that I thought was just a great example.

of not how Sara and I do it perfect, but actually how many times I'm pointing to myself, if you're on YouTube watching me, I'm pointing to myself, many times I will mess up and I will revert to always old habits of anger, of yelling or intimidation or whatever, just getting mad to then somehow get my kids to do something. And I'm still, always working on it, always trying to get better. The kids know that, but these moments happen. And one happened a couple of weeks ago and I thought Sara would be so great to just

share that this the situation and then what we do about that you know we don't just sit back and say yeah we're not perfect we mess up but we actually want to do something about not to become perfect but to actually grow and learn from it yeah yeah kind of laying out the strategies that we have found successful in our lives and with others and giving them a game plan well and sir you and i see this all the time with couples that were helping a lot of times it just isn't happening you know what we tend to do is we tend to mess up

beat ourselves up about it and then just hope that it won't happen again. Or we might even make promises that it won't happen again, but we're finding that we're stagnant, we're stuck in place, we're not really changing. And I'm sure a lot of listeners feel that way. They're like, I've been trying to change this for a decade and I'm still doing the same dumb things or same frustrating things or making the same mistakes and beating myself up about it. And then now what's really frustrating is I'm seeing it in my kids too.

They're making the same mistake, you know? And so then all that shame is there, and none of that is gonna help us change. And so I wanna say this, Sara, if you're relating to this, you're like, yes, that happened. That totally happens with me. Going into 2025, I know there's all these New Year's resolutions, that kind of stuff. If you're just saying, you know, we want to do this better, and there's...

are so many great resources on how to stop yelling and doing that stuff. if you're really wanting to make a transformational change to where you're not becoming a perfect parent, but you're becoming a united couple on how to really teach your kids to be self-controlled and self-disciplined and all those kinds of things, be thinking about checking out getting coaching for that.

And that is something that I get to do with parents all throughout the world. And if you are interested in learning more about that, just email me at kyle at art of raising humans.com. And I'd love to see if you're a good fit. So now after I've just said, Hey, I'll coach you. Let me tell you how I screw things up. So there was this great moment that I thought was a really good example, Sara, about what, happens periodically with our lives. For me in particular with our kids, we were at this beautiful place, this botanical garden. It's got Christmas lights. We've been excited about this.

I know I was pumped to see it. You've been looking forward to it. We never checked it out in this way. Yeah, one of those magical Christmas activities you plan to do. another new annual Christmas thing And all gonna go and there's gonna be Christmas music and lights and you know all that fun. the kids are gonna be fantastic. Memories will be made. We're just gonna be laughing and skipping all time through it. And you know for the most part it was great. It was, was, it was terrific. It was great. We had a blip. Yeah.

we had a blip and what I want to tell you, want to tell you what happened. And then I want to walk you through it and how we then learn as a family from it. Okay. So things were going great. I was loving the lights that there was a moment where our two youngest kind of split off and they were looking at some different lights and you, me and our oldest were walking around looking at. we were kind of taking some pictures and stuff. So they just went in the little area near us and they were exploring. And then I was walking and I tend to do this. I tend to kind of

get interested in something and I'm walking off towards it, right? So I'm walking off, I see this green bridge that I think would be an awesome thing. It's a little tunnel, all wrapped in light. So in my mind, I'm thinking, let's go to that bridge, right? So I'm wanting all of you to go that way, to go to the bridge. And then our middle child, Brennan, he has a different idea. So he decides he He's like, don't want to play follow the leader. I have another idea, follow me. So he has this other trail that he got excited about. Now I'm already...

Dead set on that bridge. I'm sure you've been there like I want to go this direction So I see a conversation happening I see Brennan talking to Sara and in my mind immediately There's some judgment and criticism starts going on like he's trying to convince mom to convince me Well, that ain't happening like assume my my my brains like I'm not doing that I want to go on this so Sara you come over you start to tell me what Brennan's saying and I'm in this I'm in the state of my I'm just not interested. I don't really care about

It's like, I really just want to do what I want. And I want Sara to just go along with it. I'm like, Sara, be a team. Tell the kids to get over it and follow me. Right? Yep. So you, so then in that moment I could feel there's tension, but I'm in my mind, I'm thinking the tension would not be here if you would just agree with me. And if you and I could follow the leader, we could team up and tell Brendan, his idea isn't good. My idea is better.

And then even once we got on the bridge and started going, Brennan did eventually go, reluctantly, he was cooperating. We get across the bridge, but I'm still really annoyed at Brennan. And my frustration level's probably at like a five or six. And I feel like I need to say a word to Brennan. need to have a little talk with Brennan, as we will do, as parents will do. This needs to be a lesson, right? So I pull him aside and I start saying dumb things like, listen, Brennan, who do you think paid to get into this thing? Like I

I pay for, right? And so sometimes as a kid, you just gotta like go along with what parents want. You don't need to like, it isn't about you. isn't about, it's about what we want because it's just like all these dumb things are coming out of my mouth, right? And I'm like seriously believing this stuff as I'm saying it, because it's not that they're all wrong. I mean, there are some truths to that in a sense of I did, we did pay for it, right? And I did have an agenda, but it is confusing to a kid because up until then I've been fine doing whatever else I And I never,

ever communicated or articulated that that bridge was something I wanted to do, right? Until it came in conflict with what he wanted. So, so needless to say, it wasn't a pretty moment. Actually, I was kind of embarrassed because there was a couple that came by and I was kind of like raising my voice at Brandon. I was thinking, what if they know I teach this stuff? What if they know I coach? Yes, they might be like, my gosh.

That's that guy that we saw on social media or something. I'm sure nobody even knew who was. But in that moment, you do think that and think, man, I've been exposed. I'm a hypocrite. What an idiot. So there was this sense of shame for a bit, too, that I had to kind of work through. And it took me probably good 10 minutes or something like that, 15 minutes to finally get back to a space where I wasn't still thinking, why are you doing this? What an idiot. Stop doing it. But we're also judging Brennan. They're like, why does he have to be so rigid and demand his own way? I wish he would just.

say, thanks dad, this is fantastic. Whatever you want to do, wherever you want to go. I'm so excited to go there too. Well, well, and so it looks like for about 15 to 20 minutes, maybe a lesson that our beautiful botanical garden time had been derailed. Yeah. And I felt like in the, would be the memory that children take with them and they won't want to go back to the, and they won't want to go back to that again. And so

Man, for a little bit I was blaming Brennan, like he ruined this for us, which we can do. know, what's his problem, But then I was like, no, you ruined it, Kyle. This is what you do. You get triggered, you turn into your dad in these moments when my dad would get mad. And now I'm like channeling him and being really rigid and saying these like very, you know, things that are just ridiculous. And I want everybody just to agree with me, you know? So by the time we get into the car,

I'm now calm, I'm now composed. And this is the part I really want, you know, if you can relate to this, I'm sure you have, I'm sure some listeners right now are like, yes, that happened just yesterday. Real quick too, we kind of got to a better place where we did talk a little bit in the moment. Yeah. And we got to a better place, but it was one of those where it's like, okay.

We're okay. We're having fun again, but we're going to need to come back and have a better, longer conversation. So we didn't leave everything in shambles as we just trudged through the rest of it. we did some real quick kind of Kyle and I had a conversation. We had a with Brendan and our other two and kind of got everything. All right. Settled. Here we go. Everyone's requests are honored and heard. then we just knew we were going to have to come back.

So what you're saying by the we got into the car everyone was in a better space. Yeah, mean the evening and we had a lot of fun. We ended on some good notes, but as we got into the car I knew there needed to be some follow-up. Yeah, it wasn't truly settled, you know, even though we had brought, we had returned to some peace, you know, things were gonna linger if we didn't address them. Yeah, linger and also I think also start creating some bad habits.

Right. Yeah, that these things needed to be addressed because you guys if you don't know this like kids will develop these stories in their mind at those moments, you know, lots of times the kid will develop this self anger, you know, this self hatred towards themselves of those thoughts I have like look at Brennan messing this up for us. He will feel that like he'll start thinking that too. So you really then resentment. Yeah. mean, if you have dad won't listen to me. I don't matter. Yes. They don't care what I want. I just need to do what I'm told and and kind of

that resentment can build. Well, lots of times what Dr. Siegel calls that is like a toxic rupture. So there's a toxic rupture. So we want to go back and we want to be intentional how we follow up. Now, as I kind of share the follow up with you as a listener, this is something that took us a long time to get there to where the kids were receptive and open to trusting that the follow up was not going to be a moral lecture. Okay. Many times parents will complain to us that, my kids just won't do that.

It's because the kids don't believe it's going to be helpful. They think it's just going to be a piling on session where we all tell the kid what they did was bad, right? And justify what you did, tell them how wrong they were, and they just get to hear it again and again. So this car ride home, I needed to, as the dad, as the one who kind of instigated this conflict, I needed to get myself into a place where I was seeking understanding. I really just wanted to understand their point of view and see how they saw it.

Yeah, step one, seek understanding. I'm going to follow up, reconnect and have that as my goal. How do I do that? How do I model that? Well, I just say something like, hey, did you guys like how that went? Right? That's an interesting question. And that typically is an inviting question where it doesn't feel like the kid's going to get in trouble or something by saying, so the kid can say, no, I didn't like how that went, you know? And then I want to make sure I should expect them to say no. Yeah. Right. So they should feel be.

they should feel that they can say no and no, I didn't like that. So it should be like, yeah, you didn't like that, right? I didn't like it, right? And at this point, I might not even say I didn't like it either. I just say, I might leave it with that. And you're gonna want to insert your thoughts. You're gonna want to insert your opinion. Hey, let me tell my side of the story. But first, I want to hear theirs. I mean, these moments of conflict, if you really want them,

to really be repaired and us to actually grow and learn from. And you actually want the child to be able to take responsibility for whatever part they played in it. I first need to understand how they perceived it, understood it, felt about it. Yeah, you wanna, it's a whole, I wanna know exactly what it felt like to be in your shoes. Yeah. Without a judgment, without, just set all that aside and just be super curious, what was it like to be you in that?

And initially, if you're first doing this, knew you've been doing your family, it's probably best just to do it one-on-one, maybe with each kid. So as you're putting them to bed later that night, hey, how did you feel about what happened? Or did you like how that went? And then each of them could tell you. But in this car at home, all three wanted to talk about it. But Abby, in particular, oldest, she started sharing her perspective on it had some really great views about how she kind of saw Brennan's side, also saw our side. And I think just be aware that

they might say some things that trigger you. Right? I mean, I would say most likely they're going to say something you want to jump in and defend yourself or justify. Yeah. You're going to be triggered. Like, how dare you say that? Or what do you mean by that? Or that's not true. you just, just hold that. go, okay. Well, Sara, even some of their facts might not be accurate. Right? Yeah. And then it's having, no, I didn't do that. I didn't say that. Right. It's a temptation that, and then you're going to shut them down and then they're going to go like, I don't want to do these with

because the goal is not to correct details or anything. It's what did it feel like to be in your shoes and right or wrong, that's how they felt and that's what you need to know. If you want them talking to you, you need to be in that space. Yeah, and their feelings don't have to be something, it's not that you have to agree with them. Right. They're not even asking you. Justify. Yeah, you just need to understand them. Just hold them with them, okay? So that's the first one. I'm seeking understanding, okay? And then the next part, after I've heard that,

And I feel like I understood that and I can kind of check with them. Is there anything else? Did you tell me everything you felt about? Then I might say something like, hey, can I first take responsibility for my part in this? And then I might say, I'm sorry for raising my voice at you or I'm sorry for talking to you that way. That's not how I want to talk to you. And a step that I really like Sara is moving into saying, could I have your forgiveness? Like, would you forgive me for talking to you that way?

Would you forgive me for raising my voice? And the reason why I'm asking that is because I really don't want it to be just, I'm sorry, session. Too often, I did as a dad early on just say I'm sorry a lot about a lot of different things. And yet there was like, OK, you're sorry. Great. But there was no connection or action asked for the other person about receiving that. And I think that gets tricky because I don't know if you've ever been mad at someone and you're like, yeah, I forgive you. But you realize it's really going to be a minute before you've truly

let that been able to let that go or move past that. And our children are the same way. They might be rather we feel like they should be or shouldn't be doesn't matter. They might be upset with us about something. And it might they can say I forgive you. can say you're sorry, but just realize it might take them a little bit to work through that truly and that and our goal is for them to truly work through it. Not just a quick I'm sorry, I forgive you because you know, we all know that can be empty.

Well, in my goal of doing that too, Sara, is I want to model to them how to take responsibility for my actions, right? I want them to see me do that because if I want to raise kids who take responsibility for their actions, I need to first start by doing it with my own, right? And then I might say, if now I feel like we're in this good space, you know, I might say, could I kind of tell you how I saw it? You know, and in this moment when I'm sharing this, Sara, I liked how I like,

Brene Brown, through her writings, has kind of encouraged this approach to say, the story I was telling myself was this. So if you hear that in that phrase in the story, I was telling, it's not, I'm not attacking my son. I'm not saying you did this. I'm not blaming him. I'm just telling the story. So then I can kind of reveal some of these things. Like I wrote down some of these things that were in my head, stuff like kids should do what they're told.

You know, I'm like, I, I, I, I, there's some truth in that, there's also a lot of not true. Right. So like, it's so, it's so weird, but those statements of pop really don't want to raise kids who are just like, yes, tell me what to do. And I will do. Yes. I don't want to raise robots. It's not safe. It's not, mean, there's all kinds of stuff out there, so we won't go there, but yeah. Yeah. Another one is the parent. I'm the parent. I'm in charge, know, basically like you need to do what I say. Cause I'm the parent, right? Once again,

it's not like that's a complete not, you know, there is some truth to that, right? And so that's why my brain, I think, holds on to these statements. And then the other one was kids should give in to what I want, right? In that sense of like, I'm, I'm dictating this, just just say yes, just agree, just do this. And that's actually not the kind of kids we want to raise. We want to raise kids who we can co create with. Yes, we're doing things with them. Yeah. Versus they're just, yeah, mindlessly obedient to whatever. Well, and even I think that's what Brendan was thinking.

I was thinking he was thinking the way you've raised me was to say I want to go down this other trail, right? It wasn't to just go. have a thought too. Yeah. Yeah. We've raised them to do that because we think that's healthy. Even if we can't always do what they want, we want them to come to us. What's your desire? What's your thought? Maybe we can do it maybe for whatever reasons we won't be able to, but you are heard, you are seen, your opinion matters. And I loved Sara, what you did in the car is even as we were talking about this,

I still was a little confused about what we could have done differently. And that's the end thing, right? So once we've done these steps where first we sought understanding, then there's some taking responsibility, sharing your perspective kind of with the kid. And hopefully there can be this back and forth. It's not just a big dialogue, a monologue. But then the last part is what are we gonna do different next time? What's the change we're gonna implement? And I loved what you said where you broaden my imagination by saying,

I think at that moment, could we have just not slowed down, just been patient and just listened? And as you said, I'm like, I think that totally would have solved everything. If I would have taken a moment to just hear what Brennan was saying, and later on we found that that trail he was taking, it would have made us backtrack, right? And Brennan eventually saw that, but in that moment, I probably could have shown him that just by saying, hey, Brennan. But- We could just pause for a second and have the conversation. But I hope all the listeners hear this, Sara, that what happened in the dance between him and I was-

I was shutting down, I wasn't listening, I was getting rigid and demanding my way, and then he was doing the same thing back. And instead, if I would have come with open hands rather than a closed fist, I would have helped him open his hand too. And then he probably, I mean, I think not 100 % certainty, but he probably would have been much more receptive and open and thought, okay, you're right, dad, yeah, let's go to, and I would have gotten the same outcome that I wanted, which was him.

just being cooperative, right? But the cooperation came through me listening and connecting with him and understanding where he was coming from. And that's true of you and I and our marriage. That's true of every stinking relationship I have in life. just did that. understanding is really important. And I think you do a great job of creating a safe space where they feel like in those moments, they can say the things to you that they don't think you want to hear, right? They can be really, really honest and you create that very safe space for them to do it.

Because otherwise they'll be like, I'm fine. I'm fine. And they'll just, you know, a lot of kids will just, not everyone, but a lot of kids would just like hold it inside and tell you, there's nothing, there's nothing to say. Because they say mom and dad say they want to hear, but when I do, they blow up. Yeah. Or it comes back to me later. Yeah. They'll hold on to it and it up. So in the moment I can tell them, but next week I'm going to hear about it. Next month I'm going to, they're going to bring that back up and use it against me. And we just, we, we ruin it for ourselves when we do that.

The other thing I think you do a great job that I think can be hard as parents is pausing and having that moment of self-reflection. was the story I was telling? What messages are going through my head? Because to go into that conversation and be understood yourself, you need to pause long enough to realize what was going on. What triggered me or what got me in that space? Yeah, because you and I were talking about that. That's actually the gold.

of these moments is lots of times these thoughts, these things like I'm saying, like do what you're told. These things are taking over the driver's seat and they're just taking me where I don't want to go. And the more aware we are of these statements that many times were given to us by our parents or by teachers when we were younger. It's a system. It's a system that's operating. This is the very thing that we need to be aware of to then change that. So then we don't give it to our kids because otherwise, you we've all been there where we

have repeated and said to our kids the very thing as a kid that we were like, I'm never gonna say that to my kids. But then we are saying it's because in that moment we're getting dysregulated and reverting back to these old pathways and we're just spewing these things, we're thinking about them. And then all of a now I'm like all rigid and mad about statements I don't even necessarily believe. Yeah, or you can, at least it opens up the option for you to take the little bit of truth that is still in that statement and decide, okay, I'm gonna take this little piece here, but then that's not serving me so I'm gonna get rid of that.

there may be times we need to say, guys, you need to do it where we're going. You need to follow our is important for you just to follow us here. But with that, I want them to have a voice. I want them to feel heard. how can we create a space where both of those things can be together? And that's a goal of ours. Well, and what's cool about it is in the kids' lives, when we reveal these kind of voices in our heads,

the kids will go, yeah, no, could, because sometimes that would be important, you know, but other times I'd want you to listen to me and hear me out, you know? And so even then they are hearing it and they're understanding it, hearing where it could come from, why we might think that, but then also showing us ways in which that doesn't play out, you know, in certain situations. So, so anyway, so I hope this situation just revealing this to you, how this was just a few weeks ago, Sara, right? And this is something that we are still working through and it's something I don't necessarily think I,

I ever want to get rid of, not to say that I want to be okay with acting like this, but I think it's a part of being human and being perfect is not my goal. And when I mess up, I want to know how to mine those mistakes that we make for the good that's in them, you know? And we want to raise kids who, yes, they have self-control. Yes, they are self-disciplined. Yes, they are regulated, but I want them to know when they mess up.

there's still gold defined in those mistakes, right? Yeah. And they model that to them. they, cause they're going to be human to a mess up. And that's how we learn. I said, wanted to end for every listener. That's how we want to end 2024 is like, man, we're growing and changing. We're learning new things all the time. And so are you. And I want to give you some grace and just some compassion that like 2024, I'm sure had some hard times and some great times, but take a moment to just understand you're not meant to be a perfect parent.

You just wanted to be a parent that isn't afraid of failure and making mistakes, but instead knows how to learn from those and how to do it hand in hand with your kids so you can all grow and learn and be better. And you can change the legacy in so many beautiful ways. Yeah, it's lovely. Yeah, so we hope you have a happy new year and that everything is safe and you have fun looking forward to with hope to 2025.

that you can create the family that you are dreaming of. Thanks for joining us today.