Episode 122

Have you ever thought about the skills in your marriage being the exact same skills in many ways as parenting? know, have you ever stopped to think that maybe the way I'm learning to talk to my spouse or friend really does translate to the way I'm talking to my kid. You know, if we are raising little human beings to become big human beings, man, what a great opportunity in our everyday relationships to model those skills to our kids. So today in

In the conversation we're gonna have the podcast, and I are gonna dive into that and how that was a real aha moment for me. But then I'm gonna give you five clear steps you can take today to start changing those dynamics, start changing the way you see the relationship with your spouse and how it directly connects to raising humans who know how to do healthy marriages, have great friendships, be great brothers and sisters and awesome coworkers to each other. So I know your heart is to raise kids like that. So.

jump in the conversation today and just really be ready to implement some really healthy steps after we're done with the conversation.

Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. And I'm Sarah. And today we want to help switch your paradigm and kind of flip maybe the way you've been seeing parenting. I think one of most important things for Saraand I in changing how we approach was this realization, this kind of aha moment, Sarah, that I had that, wait, if our kids are just humans and you're a human, maybe the things I do with you will work with them. Yeah.

Yeah, because we often think that, okay, I'm engaging with adults. Yeah. And so need to be one way. now I'm engaging with kids. Totally different. I need to treat them different, interact with them different. Well, and the reason why we do that, I think, is because lots of us group in homes where that's how it was, right? mean, kids were in the real common cliche should be seen and not heard, right? there, was this expectation that, that basically kids, what they valued or what they wanted was just less important.

than what the parents wanted. The parents always trumped the kids. so we can't approach. And that was how we grew up. then things started to shift. Things started to shift, at least in my thinking, of I thought, wow, if I'm trying to raise little humans to become healthy humans, then maybe the skills I'm trying to get better at in my own marriage will actually translate to them. Because isn't the end goal? I want them to have

healthy relationships. I want them to know these same skills with their friends and with each other. So that's kind of where it started to really click with me of like, I don't have to work on two different things. Like, how do I work on being a better husband? And then how do I work on being a dad? They're two separate things. Yeah. was sort of as you go along and as you're doing this kind of parenting approach, you just have, like you said, the aha moment where you think, wait, it's kind of the same thing here and there. And of course there are differences and we'll get to that,

but there's so much of it that you just start to realize it's the same in both relationships. Well, here's what's the same is this approach that we teach that we do is a skills based approach. So pretty much whatever skill I'm working on with you and I'm getting better at it with you, it will translate to working on with them too, right? Cause they're just skills in the same way. If I'm working on it with my kids, it will also translate to us. Now I'm just, I didn't expect that would happen, Sarah. I thought I had to like be siloed and just

Okay, read some books on marriage, get better at the marriage. And then like, now I've got to read some books on parenting. You can do that. But I think what you'll find is there's a lot of crossover. And the difference is great? That's very convenient. is. Saves your time. crossover is good. Yeah. So before we dive into that more, take a moment, pause. I'd love for you to leave a review, leave a comment. Did you see it this way? Like, is this something you got right into parenting and you saw it as the same?

So I'd love for you just to comment about that down below and also share this podcast. It really, really helps us. So jumping back into the conversation is I just was really excited once I saw that crossover, you know, because then there was all these ways that I actually was confident. I felt kind of confident that I could be an okay husband, right? But when it came to parenting, I did feel a little ill -equipped to be a great

you know, probably because I just spent more time through dating and through trying to like, yeah, through friendships. all those things, felt like I was getting better at those, but I hadn't ever, I actually never held a kid, I don't think, except for maybe my niece for a little bit, you know, but I'd never saw this whole new raising a baby. was like uncharted territory, you know? And so as the kids were growing up, there was this fear in me of like, my gosh, how do I do this

You know, in the many ways I was failing, I was not being the dad I wanted to be, you know? Whereas I did feel pretty good in our marriage. And so then when we kind of got this idea of like, wait, what if the skills in marriage were the same as the skills in parenting? Do they cross over? And as I looked more and more, they did. They seemed to be really needed in both areas, you know? And so let's talk about some of those skills.

What are some of the basic skills? So anybody who's listening, if you're married or ever been in a relationship or wanting to be in one, if you go to marriage counseling, every marriage counselor has a kind of an idea, a framework about the kind of skills they're looking for. Okay. So we're not going to hit on all those. You and I are not marriage counselors. Right. Yeah. We've gotten some training, but that's not our cup of We don't actually want to do that as a profession either, but we have read a lot of books, to marriage conferences,

And we have a lot of friends who are marriage counselors. So we, we have this kind of framework of what they're looking for and what they'd emphasize. So we're just going to hit a few that are probably real common. Most of our listeners probably know this, but, but some of may not be aware of it. So a big one is talking about kind of the power dynamics in a relationship, talking about the roles we play, you know, and talking about how we use that power, not against each other to dominate the other, but how to actually work together as a team. So what do mean by

Well, mean, kind of like sounded all really fancy. It just means like, like instead of me, like I'm the boss and I tell you what to do. It's like, we both are designing a vision for our family together. And what you have to share is equally as important as what I have to share. And we're actually working together as a team to create that. Okay. Okay. So it's getting away from this tiered sort of here I am here. You are here's the dog. Here's the, you know, right? It's kind of like elevating them in some ways to say,

We're both in this. It's a relationship, not one with less power, more power, but to realize I want to elevate you. Well, and I think even this idea that we're in this together, we're for each other, right? So our power that we have is always meant to support and encourage the right? Yeah, because I was like, I need to back that up in a second, because we actually do have more power, and we want to own that we have more power. But it's how we're using that power to elevate their power and elevate them.

Well, and then no relationship. And as soon as I feel like I have to like use my power to make you do something or cut like, yeah, nobody was like, way that's really healthy marriage work out there. Like me saying like, Sarah, I said it, do it. You know, it's really like, no, we're discussing this together. We're co -creating the family we want to, you know? Yes. Okay. The other one I was noticing was just communication, right? That most marriage counselors, they'll note that a lot of the conflicts are happening because of poor communication. You know?

We're not really doing a great job of listening to each other, really articulating our needs well, or just spending time talking together, right? That we're just too busy on our phones or on devices or distracted with work, right? You actually have to communicate for your marriage for sure, but for any relationship you think, well, I mean, if I don't actually talk to this person and not just, hey, grab your shoes and get in the car.

But actually have conversations with the person where it's this give and take and it's, I'm listening to you and sharing my, you know, hearing what your thoughts and feelings are. I'm sharing my thoughts and feelings. It's that deeper communication with you. That's equally important. Cause sometimes I think as parents, we get into the caretaking role and we're taking care of them. We're taking care of them and they were doing a beautiful job taking care of them, but we need to also be aware. Am I just talking with them? Are we having conversations? Do I know their thoughts and feelings?

And it can be about small things. can be the movie we watched last night. It can be their play date with their friend, but you know, not just how did it go? Did you have fun? Yeah. But, those deeper insights, because it, you know, in a relationship, I don't want to just know, did you have a good day at work? Exactly. You but it was like, what was hard? What went really well? What were your successes? You know, I want to hear those deeper thoughts and feelings, those struggles. That's what brings the relationship together. So it's that real big communication, not

you're actually putting words out there. Yeah, I love that. What even I was thinking also for the other person who's being asked those questions to purposely be intentional about sharing those thoughts, right? Like throughout the day thinking about you and being, want to share that with her later. I want to share that with him later. another one. on top of communication with them be connection, right? Just spending time together, enjoying each other. I mean, that's a big emphasis of a lot of that connects with communication. Yeah. I tell couples all the time who come in for parenting coaching is I'll say, you know, one of the first questions that

marriage council ask is, are you spending time together? Are you enjoying each Not just in the same building, not in the same house, because where you're just, I'm doing the dishes, you're mowing the lawn, you're putting the kids to bed, I'm feeding the dog. You have to actually be spending quality time together. So same with your children. Are you spending quality time, not just time around them, but quality time with them. And actually doing fun activities together that you both enjoy. Like I'm thinking that that's what a lot of marriage council point out

The thing that's changed in the marriage when all of a sudden you're now seeking marriage counseling is you're not spending that time together. You're not enjoying each other. Most of the conversations are arguments or, you know, we're, we're, we're, yeah, they're very, they're not deep. They're not like, you're not laughing together, you know, and that's really what was the magic sauce when you were dating was you were doing that, you know, and that's what helped you now perceive them in a more positive way. And therefore you felt this love and affection towards them, right? Same with friends, friends became friends because you laughed with them and had fun with them. Right.

So that's another key one that a lot of parents forget with their kids, right? Is we know like, I need to be going on dates with my wife, or I need to specifically be saying, hey, let's go do something together, right? And we need to be doing that one -on -one. And if we aren't, how are we gonna enjoy each other? Another one was this idea of respect, meaning that I'm not gonna demand respect from you. I'm actually, in marriage counseling, I've got to be respectful to you.

And then, and then believe that that will come back to me. Yeah. And I feel like this is a really hard one. maybe first, depending on how you were raised, right? Where it's like kids need to respect their elders. They need to respect their parents. And the funny thing is, is that's actually a two way street. Kids learn by what's modeled to them. So if I'm treating my child respectfully, then they learn how to treat me respect. So

What does respect mean in your family? You know, what are you asking them? If I say, want my child to respect me, to respect what, what does that look like? And then I need to ask myself, I mean, you might even need to literally write down that list. What does that list entail? Does that mean that they don't yell at me? They're not raising their voice. They're responding. When I say something to them, I need to make that list. And then I need to hold myself to that list as well. Do I yell at them?

Do I respond when they ask me about something? I talk over them? Do I interrupt them a lot? Yeah. So, so right. It probably be a good exercise if that's one that you feel like is a big one for you because I feel like it's so much in you hear that a lot, you know, just, just think about that list of what does it mean for them to respect me? And am I giving them that same thing? Cause I need to first be modeling that a hunt. mean, I need to be really good at that one. If I'm going to ask them to be held to that same standard back

Really, they'll naturally do it that's how they're being treated. Well, going back to the marriage example too is how are they going to know how to do that if I'm not doing that with you? Right? If I'm speaking to you and what everyone could see as a disrespectful way, meaning like I'm speaking condescending to you, speaking arrogantly or putting you down or yelling at you, and then I expect the kids to not talk to me that way. That would be very confusing. Right? So we want to make sure that in our marriage,

we know like if I wasn't doing that, if I was speaking to a disrespectful way, you would give me that feedback that you didn't like that. I don't like how you're talking to me, right? And then if I wanted to keep the marriage good and enjoy, I need change how I'm talking to you, okay? That that feedback's important about how you're receiving how I'm communicating. So we wanna do the same thing and show the kids that. So in any relationship, bottom line, if it's one sided on the respect, that's just, you're gonna have a breakdown in the relationship.

If I'm not treating you with respect, but wanting you to treat me with respect, we're gonna have problems real quick. And so it's the same thing with children and to see it through their eyes. And the next one I thought is a big one. This one I had to work on a lot in marriage is listening and the power of listening. A lot of counseling when marriage counselors are working through stuff with couples is they're teaching them how to actually listen

Yeah, because I know for me, Sarah, when you would talk when we first was married, I was already thinking about my response to you. I was already thinking about how I could win the argument. I wasn't really understanding that the point of us communicating was to better understand each other. And that only comes through listening. So there wasn't a lot of curiosity like there had been maybe when we were dating. All of a it was like, no, we're married now. I just want you to understand me instead of me understanding like me. Yes, dating. You don't really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And so we often will translate that to our children where it's like, wait, you have a different thought than me. And, and we don't even often hear those out because we're really busy telling our kid what they should think and how they should feel about the situation. Maybe they're upset. No, you're fine. You know, instead of just pausing the, all the feedback I have and going, tell me more about that. And I love the word curiosity for this. Listening to me, if you just plug in curiosity there helps so much.

and just watch the relationship change and grow by if you did nothing else, it just simply listen. It would really change if you're struggling or feeling disconnected. Yeah. And I think this is a huge, that was a big one I really had to work on. And I'm so glad I did a lot of that work with you initially, because then it's light years with the kids, because I feel like I was slipping into think like me, do it like me. And so I was almost like telling you what to think and what to do and

And then you were like, I have my own thoughts and my own opinions. And it was like, And then I realized, wait, no, like these are good. It's good that you don't think like me. That's actually a benefit to our relationship. It makes our marriage stronger, just like it makes our family stronger when our kids don't always think like us. it's just natural. are, think people are more likely to believe that in a marriage. Like you might go into marriage thinking, now that we're married, we should just see everything the same or we should always come together. But you might just really have a difference of opinion on something.

And it's shocks, it shocks our system sometimes, but our children are the same way, even if they're little, they can have a different idea about something and that can be okay. We can work this through. Well, that leads me into the last one. And like I said, this isn't all the things a counselor would want to work on with a couple, the last one, one of the biggest reasons why couples come to counseling loss is conflict resolution. They're struggling with how to resolve conflict. so, you know, for lack of a better term, some

what you're doing in marriage counseling is teaching them how to fight differently, right? And what I mean by that is how to like phrase things in a way that isn't so attacking and you're learning how to do this whole listening back and forth, understanding each other, but you're even learning ways to say like, I feel this instead of saying you make me feel this and you those kind of, you're trying to help each other be more open and receptive to resolving the conflict. And the goal in marriage counseling is the same in our parent coaching, which is you want the conflict to lead to more intimacy and not us pushing away from each

You're going to have conflict just like in a marriage, everyone say, it's normal. You're not, you're going to fight with your, you know, the other person, but you want to learn how to resolve it. You're going to have disagreements with your children. You're going to have times where you're in conflict with what they want and your desires, but you can resolve it. You can work through it. So, yeah. And it's important to believe that and have confidence in that. I know if first in marriage, those skills, yeah. First in marriage, I remember early on, it was like, yeah, we can do this. And

that they did slip into, like the arguments seemed unresolvable. It seemed like it was hard to, and so then the lack of confidence went down until we got some skills. We're like, wait, okay, I think it's because I'm slipping into these old habits that maybe I saw my parents do or maybe whatever. And as I started doing the healthier ones, then I began to like, I wasn't scared of us disagreeing. I was actually like, this is a moment for me to understand you that I hope for the rest of my life, Sarah, that I'm learning about you. And I think you're that complex. I think all human beings

that until I die, you're always gonna have parts of you that are still a mystery to me. And so if I approach it that way, then I'm just curious about how you see it that way. it's like, instead of, know my face, if you're watching a video, it's kinda like, how do you see it that way? Like, what in God's do you, my gosh. And I think early on in our marriage, it was like, what is your problem? How could you, but now it's more like, more often than not, I would be like, how do you see it that way? I'm more like curious. And I realized

you seeing it different is a strength to us and not a deficit. So conflict resolution is a big part of it. And I wanna throw this last piece in here that I think the reason why marriage counseling, a lot of couples will eventually go seek out help with these where they may not for parent coaching is they know that the other spouse can leave them. There is this sense of like, you don't have to stay with me. I do need to work on this. We have to make this work. It's gonna take effort on my part.

Whereas I think where the disconnect is, is we don't believe our kids can. But then we find out too late that they can. know, lots of times couples are coming when the kid is 13, 14, and the kids just hiding in their room all the time and the kids biting. They may physically be present, but there isn't relationship. And they're even saying things like some couples lately are coming. I don't want to spend time with you after I leave, you know, I don't want to come back home. I want to go to college and I want to get a job somewhere else. And so you start to,

that breaks your heart. but all of a there's that realization like, my kid doesn't have to stay with me. It's actually their choice if they want to be in relationship with me, just like it is with you and I. And I just I don't say that as a scary thing, but just as a real honest thing that any relationship I'm in, everybody has a choice whether not to be in that relationship with me. So I want to work at those relationships so we can have healthy, good connections. want, mean, parents, you love your kids. You want a beautiful relationship with them that lasts your whole life.

and you want that to be just rich and fun and full of love and happiness. And you can do that and your child can check out from that relationship. So you wanna take care of it like you do your marriage. So I'm hoping you're seeing what we're throwing out

which is, you see how all of these skills that are so vital in our marriage, and many, many more we have not said, translate to kids? And why is that important? Because I think so many times when parents get caught up on what to do in this moment or that moment, I will say to them something that kind of blows their mind, which is, what would you do with your wife? What would you do with your husband? And I'm not saying it's always a perfect correlation, but it is a

like appropriate correlation because it is another human being. How would you deal with them in this situation? And I don't know anybody who says I would scream at them. That would be the best way to handle or tell them what to do. Send them to their room. Yeah. I would threaten them or somehow take away all the things they enjoy. That never has seemed to be a way they think it would be helpful to do in their marriage or with their friends because they believe if they did that, those people would no longer be in a relationship with them. And it reminds me of CS Lewis, the author of Chronicles of Narnia and many other great books.

I was reading a little story he was telling because he never had kids, but how he would be watching parents with kids and the ways in which the parents spoke to the kids. He just observed that nobody else would stay in relationship with those parents if they were talking to them that way. But they seemed like they felt like they could because the kid couldn't seem to leave. The kid had to almost take it, you know, and that really kind of stung

Because it's true. There's ways in which I would at times out of anger or out of talk to the kids in ways I would not talk to you because I think you'd get really mad at me. It's almost, I feel like I gave myself that luxury to do that because they're my kids. I can talk to them, I want to talk to them. Well, that's just not true. I want to talk to them the way I want them to talk to me. It's just a really interesting thought. We're highlighting marriage, but really there's so much crossover between how with marriage,

a coworker with a friend, a lot of times you can plug in the same skills I'm using to have this good healthy relationship with my friend or my coworker or my spouse, my significant other are the same skills you can use with your children. Yeah. So I want to highlight those skills again, just like that's not an exhaustive list, but we basically say connecting is really important, right? We talked about communication, power dynamics, respect, listening, conflict resolution.

And those are the main ones kind of you hear a lot in marriage counseling types. Yeah, just ones we felt like had real easy crossover, really helpful. And so what we are doing, I'm constantly thinking about how what I'm doing with you is modeling to the kids, how I want them to do it in their future relationships, how I want them to do it with me personally, and I want them to do it with each other. So it really helps like just knowing they're watching. It can be a real plus, you know, because you're like, they're watching. So I want to make sure when I talk to Sarah,

I don't want to be sloppy all the time and how I talk to her. I want to make sure I'm thinking is how I'm talking to her the way I want them to talk to me. And if it isn't, I need to go back and fix it. I need to go back and resolve that. There's been many times Sarah, where I've spoken to you in ways where I did get mad and I raised my voice and I really felt convicted to come back and in front of the kids say, Hey, the way I spoke to you is not the way I want to speak to you. Okay. And I'm really sorry about that. And I'm modeling to them how to do correct that with repair. Yeah. And bring, bring some redemption and some forgiveness

Okay. So I want to leave listeners with, I came up with basically, I think four to five specific things that I think would be great for you to start doing today and just trying to understand this paradigm shift. Okay. Because I think once you get this, it really does change everything you're doing in these relationships because it all is just skills. You're learning that benefit every relationship of your life. Okay. So the first one is this might seem like a no brainer, but it actually, I don't see it a lot with parents is treating you the way I want you to treat

So the classic golden rule, do to others as you'd have them do to you, right? So I would ask you to think about, are you treating your kids the way you want them to treat you? Because that would be something I'd want in my marriage, you know? And I found when I thought about that, Sarah, it just changed a lot about how I was talking to them because then I would get mad when they would talk to me the same way I just spoke to them, which is weird because I'm the adult and I should have more skills on how to talk to them. Well, and a really quick highlight of this is just if I mess

How do I want people to treat me? So then if my child messes up, how do I want to choose to treat them? And I find a lot of siblings and a lot of parents, they're treating the kid or the kids treating them the way they are being treated. Instead of understanding, like, no, I am modeling how I want you to treat me. So I'm going to be the model for that. I'm not going to let you dictate that's tough. That can be really tough. We can slide back and we just have to go, OK.

Let's do it again. Let's try this again. So number two was be intentional about how I communicate to you. So before I react, I want to be able to stop and really think about how do I want to say this to you? What am I modeling when I do that? You know? And so I just, just being really intentional to understand that yes, there'll be times we're going to be caught up in a moment where we're stressed, we're overwhelmed, whatever, but to really understand when you do that, that's not the way I want you to talk to me. So why am I talking to you that way? So to always go back and more and more make the percentage.

You're talking the way you're communicating to your kids or your spouse the way you'd like them to communicate to you. And as you practice it, your brain starts to learn that and it gets easier and easier. It's okay if you fall down and mess up, just get up and keep going. Number three, focus on understanding rather than telling you what to do. So when I wrote this down, I thought, yeah, maybe at times I would do that with you where I could be kind of in this bossy kind of Sarah, just go do this. But most of the time, I don't think it's my job to tell you what to do.

But I do. ask me to do something. I believe you have a choice. Right. Like, hey, would you mind doing this for me? Or would you mind? Well, even though I love, there's so many times where parents will tell kids what to do is if the kids don't have a choice. Where kids always have a choice, just like you have a choice. So I'm going to phrase it with you in a way that helps you be more likely to maybe choose the thing I'm wanting you to choose. Right? So I'm going to come up there and maybe say, Hey honey, I was thinking about this. Right? Instead of coming and say, Hey, I want you to do this.

Most people think you're gonna give pushback if I do that, right? And so with the kid, the same way, I'm trying to invite them into doing something, not demanding they do And also you would recognize that I'm my own agenda. Yes, I might be doing something. rather you think it's important or not, you would still be like, hey, can I interrupt you? Or hey, when can you do this thing? Or some of those simple things that if you're talking to an adult, you would respect those things. But with children, we think, hey, I need to cut it. I need you to do this right now, drop everything you're doing. I know.

Yeah, I would simply say, Sarah, are you up to something? You're doing something with the kids. I might say, hey, get in here, right? I wouldn't even think that. Number four is follow up and resolve conflicts. So once again, a lot of marriage counseling is teaching couples how to do this, that when they fight, they're like, we fought, we said some hurtful things in that argument. I need to talk to you tomorrow about that. And I found lots of parents aren't doing that with their kids, that they're yelling and they're saying things that maybe they regret, but then there's no follow up because they don't.

know how to resolve that with the kid or they don't believe the kid is going to want to do that with them so they just don't you know whereas instead in the marriage we would know that would be just a like a nail in our coffin our marriage if whenever we fought and argued we didn't follow up and resolve it we need those we need repair and we would think we need to apologize and it's the same with our children we need to look for those opportunities to apologize

and how can we repair the break in our relationship? Because those breaks will stack up and pretty soon you'll have a child living in your home that you don't have much of a relationship with. Yeah, same with your marriage. And the fifth one is listen more and talk less. So I think that would be a great one in a marriage, but also translate perfectly to the kids. So I know there's many, many more we're not thinking of and I would love for you to email us

at ArterRaisingHumans .com or comment down below, because there's so many more skills. I'm sure you're like, well, this translates and that translates. And once again, I know there's some that don't perfectly correlate, but man, it is a really - saying it's the same relationship. We're just saying there's much more crossover than we thought, and it makes it easier on us to think, I just want this skill in all my relationships. I don't have to learn like 10 ,000 skills. Like really, there is like 10 to 20 skills that are pretty standard across all relationships. And if I just focus on getting better at those,

then I could be a better spouse, a better friend, a better, even, you know, coworker, all that stuff, because they all cross over in that sense, okay? So I really hope this helped expand your thinking as you're growing as a parent, as you're wanting to be a better dad and mom of thinking, wow, this is great. If I get better in one area, I get better in all the areas. So I hope that gives you more motivation and more hope as you start to do the hard work that it takes to really be the parent that you're wanting to be, because it is hard work.

but it's also really rewarding work because you see it benefit every relationship you have. So I hope that gives you a lot to think about and really enjoy you listening to the podcast today. Have a great day!