Episode 110

In today's podcast, we are going to talk about the biggest problem you are facing in your parenting. And the number one problem I run into is both parents being on the same page about how to raise these little squirrely crazy little humans. And I know just like in Sara's and my marriage, you'll hear our story that that is causing a lot of conflict in your relationship with.

with your other parent, whether you're co -parenting or whether, so today we're gonna share our story and how we came together as a couple, how it's made all the difference in how we parent and how we do our marriage. And if you listen to the very end, we are not only gonna give you some tips about how we did that, but we're also gonna do a cool giveaway. So really excited about this podcast. First time we've ever done it on the Art of Raising Humans podcast, but I think it's gonna be a giveaway that's really gonna bring a smile to your heart and hopefully bring.

you and your spouse or co -parent together to be the parent that you hope to be. So jump into it today, listen to the end and make sure you take part of that free gift.

Hello, welcome to the art of raising humans. I'm Kyle. And I'm Sara. Man, today, Sara, we're going to hit a topic that I think is fundamental. It's a fundamental issue in almost every couple's journey as a parent, right? Yeah, I think it's very normal. I would say you should just expect it. Yeah. I mean, that's you. It should be the expectation when two humans come together. That they're going to see things differently, right? It's going to be hard to come on, get on the same page, you know, agree on how to.

approach things, you know? I mean, lots of times in marriage, it could be money, you know, it could be education, it could be religion, it could be all these things, right? But I find it really becomes challenging when you bring kids into the mix. Yes, yes. I think when two people come together, the early stage, you just think those differences are wonderful, or you feel like you have so much in common. And then the longer you're with another person, you go, wait a second, you think that way, you respond that way when something happens.

and you start to notice all the ways that you're a unique person and view the world differently than this other person. And parenting, man, that's like.

really great way to highlight that. Well, so today we wanted to share our journey on how we got on the same page, how we were so far apart, so different at the beginning. Didn't know it. No, I never guessed it. I hadn't. Yeah, I thought we were going to be easily on the same page, but it was such a challenge before we do that. I wanted to read a couple of cool comments that we got recently, Sara, you know, as we've been asking more and more people to jump on there, rate the podcast and share comments. It's really encouraging to us. And so some recent ones we just got as we were kind of making that push was.

You know, one listener gave us five stars, said it's a refreshing podcast. Said, I've always wanted to give a better life to my kids and to be a better example than what I was given. This podcast helps us not to direct, but to guide and assist with great ideas on how to parent. Thank you. Yeah. And then another one said, amazing podcast. Love this podcast. I always feel so much hope after listening. I know it's never too late to change and become a better parent. So much great advice and learning tools to help me to become a better parent. Love that. Yeah.

So, so both of those, when we read those, it just really gives us more energy to say, let's keep giving more content. I really appreciate it. I'm really appreciate it. Yes. So if you haven't taken the time yet to, to give us a five star review, that would be great. And then to write some comments about how the podcast is helping you, because really Sara and I put a lot of effort into doing this and it's obviously we're just giving away for free and we want to help every parent that can. So share the podcast, rate it. That would be a huge help to us. Yes. Okay. So now back to the topic. You know, when we came into,

to marriage, we realized we're different people. I'm much more loud. I mean, yeah, and you definitely know that, right? Yeah. Well, and I mean, those differences, like me being loud and more extroverted and you being a little quieter and introverted, right? A lot of those things when you're first dating each other, those are really cute and endearing qualities, right? Yeah. I don't want to marry myself. It's what draws you to the other person. Yeah. I mean, opposites do attract. So these strengths that I had,

Seem to then balance the weaknesses you had and vice versa, you know I mean one of the things that I really loved about you as we were dating was she's not me She doesn't think the way I think like that was actually really fascinating to me, you know because we would talk about different situations or different ideas we had and like you came from a different family than I did so we had just these different opinions on it and it was really fun to have those conversations. Yeah, I Think that's every relationship even friendships are that way right you appreciate?

what the other person is bringing into the relationship. And I think it's really important to understand that's actually what makes a couple strong is that they're not the same. Yes. You know, and many of us see that when we're connecting a lot, enjoying each other, spending a lot of time through dating and stuff that we see that you being not like me is a benefit to me. Yes. Yeah. But then what we see happens all too often is then when kids get brought into the mix, which remember kids are

this expression of this couple saying, we really enjoy each other. Let's make more of us. It's kind of this way of, let's go ahead and bring people, these humans into the world that we then through our love together can grow and make this world a better place. And I think what happens though many times is then when the kid comes into the mix, there's just not a lot of, like I know we didn't have this, like a lot of understanding.

of what that might bring to the surface. Like I think back there was a time Sara, in marriage where premarital counseling or something like that was not something people did. They just assumed they would know how to do marriage because they saw their parents married and so on and so forth. But then it became a more like expected thing. Like, hey, before you get married, are you gonna go? Lots of couples, yeah. Yeah, you're gonna go do some premarital counseling? It's not surprising to hear someone did premarital counseling. Yes, and the point of the premarital counseling isn't just to give you just skills on how to be married, although that's important.

But a big part of it is to get some things bubble to the surface, right? Some expectations about marriage, some beliefs. Yeah. About how do you handle money versus you and all kinds of things you, I remember we even finished filled out a questionnaire to sort of help bring those things to light. And, cause we, otherwise you don't know what to ask you. You don't know how different the other person is unless those things somehow come up. And so with parenting, it's natural that there's a lot of things you don't know. Cause I'm.

because you don't really see each other necessarily. Sometimes you might have the chance to see each other in that role, but maybe you don't, but it's just different when here's my child, here's your child, and we're trying to parent together, and that'll definitely bring differences to light. Definitely. And with the premarital counseling, I'm sure a lot of listeners who are listening to the podcast right now have done that, have done some kind of premarital. I don't know what the stats are. I mean, I'm assuming that doing premarital counseling helps you have a...

more likely to have success as a couple, you know? I know for us, like you said, it brought to light questions that we never would have thought to ask, or it showed places that we were like, yeah, we're totally on the same page there, but then other spaces were like, yeah, I didn't know we - Very different. Yeah, we didn't see. So it gave us the opportunity to bring those to light, to discuss those way before we ever got married, and then even to continue talking about them in a more nuanced way without shame or fear going into the marriage afterwards. Yeah.

Right. But then when kids came on board, man, I really thought, I mean, imagine this for the listeners, you and I both went to school together. We did our master's degrees in counseling together. So we did have some classes on childhood development and things like that. Yeah. Family systems, how families work, how to resolve conflict, how to help you. So going into it, we had that, but then you were.

working in an agency helping kids. I was an elementary school counselor working with kids. So thinking even more so we'd be like, yeah, we've got this. This is completely - So many tools, so much training around kids all the time. Yes. But then we had kids and I was like, what in the world? What is happening? What is she doing with them? What is your goal here? I don't understand it. And even though we were both, we'd had training, you know, we'd obviously been through a lot of, you know, continuing education type things about kids.

it seemed like you were approaching it so different than I was expecting us to approach it. You know, and I really, at first it was kind of just weird, but then I remember I did start slipping into judgment and kind of criticism, you know, because it definitely was not the way I was raised. Yeah. And I think that's really natural. So I want to bring, I think whenever you're doing something different than another person, it wouldn't matter if it's making a cup of coffee. You.

get into a place of, wait a second, this is different. And your natural course is to go, that's wrong though. A lot of times we'll think, well, that's wrong. This isn't the way I've always done it. This isn't the way I was taught or whatever it might be. So it's real easy to go into that place because your brain is trying to sort out what's happening here. Yeah. I mean, even in just a simple way, Sara, in my home, things were loud. We did things in a loud way. So,

raising your voice was just a way you spoke. It was like a way in which you, that's how you communicated. You made sure you were heard by raising your voice. But your home wasn't as loud as mine. I feel like this is probably isn't true, but in my memories, I could probably count on one hand how many times one of my parents raised their voice. They were very, very intentional about being calm and speaking calmly. Yeah. And in our home very much, it was different, right? So you weren't taken seriously until you were yelled.

Yeah. And that was a shock. I remember we talked to somebody at some point, I remember, and he was talking about his family. He was from the East coast. And, and I don't know if listeners are on the East coast, but what I heard was they speak very direct and very loud. And it was completely normal in his family and everyone spoke that way. And it kind of just blew my mind, but it helped me with you because I just thought, okay. So some houses might run differently.

and it's almost just a cultural difference. Yeah. If you're from the East Coast, let us know. Is that true? Is that true? I would also say though, my family, because I did grow up in Oklahoma and you grew up more in Michigan, it was just more affectionate. Not to say like, you know, more just more physical, you know, like we were, I remember coming the first time I met your dad and.

tried to even give him a hug. Your dad kind of had his arms to the side and he was just like, what are we doing here? It's not that your dad doesn't hug, but it was just kind of took them off guard, you know? Now your mom's a hugger, you know? But - Just differences in their family. Yeah, but much more touch. So all those are simple differences, but man, if you're listening to this and you've had these problems arise in parenting, lots of these differences that start to bubble, they start out with those little small ones.

but then it can really start to put a wedge in your marriage. And a lot of couples that come to our private practice here in Tulsa who are going through a divorce and they're wanting us to help their kids through that divorce, a real common thing that everybody wants their kid to realize is it's not their fault. There's nothing they could do to change it. But when I'm talking to the kids, they're not dumb. They realize that a lot of the arguments that the parents were having,

was about the kids and it was about how the kids are being raised. And I would say almost 90 % of the parents that come for parent coaching, who from all over the world, who reach out to us and say they want help, it's one of the biggest things we've got to overcome is them judging the other parent. One parent thinking they're doing it right and the other one doing it wrong. And it's really impeding them being on the same page and creating a unified vision on how they want a parent. And I think that's a really important.

So if you're in that situation, which I expect almost everyone is, just to realize, of course I think different than this other person. And of course I have judgments and preferences around that. So we're normal. This is what happens when two different people are raising a child. So welcome to the club. You're completely normal. And now what do you do about it? Why do you think, before we get into those different, why do you think parenting brings that to the surface more than almost any other topic?

Hmm. Well, there's a few other that are almost up there, but parenting, I think your heart is out there. This is your child and you're thinking, how do I raise this human? How do I, I want them to be successful and they almost, they matter more than my own life. And I really don't want them harmed. And I feel like what you're doing and I don't want to mess up either. I really don't want to mess this up. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, generally we might be in the, we're going to be in the situation of

I feel like what you're doing isn't helping them, is harming them, or isn't going to set them on the right path. And the problems we're having are because of the approach you're taking. Yeah. And that's really normal. Yeah. And so I think there's a lot of fear. So I think that's why it becomes, it's what I heard you say, it's a lot of responsibility. It's very personal. It's a lot of fear, but also I think it's the one that we really have the least reference point on how to do it different.

You know, like really your brain as a kid was wired a certain way to see how you deal with behavior and emotions and conflict a certain way. And it was most wired in your home. So that's the hardest thing for you then to turn around and raise a kid and do that differently because you really have no other reference point. You're not even really thinking about it. A lot of the things we do in life,

our brains are wired and they're on autopilot and they are just going, they like patterns, they like repeating things. They say, I've got it figured out. This is what I do. And you're, you're from a to B before you even realize it. Cause your brain just goes, I know what to do here. And it goes, yeah. And that happens in parenting too. It happens in those interactions and those conflicts and those tender moments, whatever they might be. It's on autopilot there too. So I'm even thinking, Sara, I got comparison that I think would really help is.

it's like learning a new language, you know, that your brain naturally defaults to English and even the accent you might have, right? So if you were like trying to say, I'm now going to speak with a new accent or I'm now going to learn a new language, that would be very challenging. You know, so if you spoke Spanish and I spoke English, it'd be hard in a, in a,

in a heated moment for you not to start just speaking Spanish, you know, and for me not to speak English. So it's the same way because in the language you were immersed in that language or that accent or the way in which you say stuff as a little kid. Before you were even born, your babies are hearing it and it's not just language. Right. That's such a great example because it's, he's brilliant.

But it's everything. It's how it's how we're talking to each other. It's our tone. It's how we handle every moment. These little babies, they're soaking all that in because their brain goes, what I mean, it's just looking around. You see that in babies where they're just watching everything and their brain is going, okay, wait, what that's happening. Okay, now this is what I do. And it's forming that wiring and it just gets stronger and stronger as we continue to grow. Well, even in a bigger picture, it parenting really, it's about our worldview, you know, even something as simple, but as big as.

do I believe fear is inevitably necessary? Do I believe fear, scaring my kids? A lot of people, we grew up in loving homes, but inevitably if push came to shove, you might just need to pull out fear. You might need to use fear then to guide the kid a certain way or to make the kid do something. And by fear, just to really be clear, meaning...

do this or you get a timeout or yelling and intimidating. Yeah, the anger. I'm bigger than you. I'm the grown up. Power being used to coerce you to do something right. So even in our very loving homes, lots of times that still was there, right? And so if you're coming with a worldview, well, eventually you may need to do that. It's different if you're one of the saying, I don't want our kids to be scared of us. I don't I think if the kids are afraid of us, they're less likely to be honest or they're less likely to open up to us. And that's where a lot of people come to coaching for us because

they're at that stage where one is saying, wait a second, if we keep doing this, then the kids aren't going to be open to us later on. And the other one's saying, yeah, but we need to get some control in this home. And so, you know, so, so going back to our story, you know, so we want to share with the audience who hasn't heard it. You know, we came into this, you, we both had had training, but you had been dealing with kids who've been sexually and physically abused. So you were even more huge traumas. Even, yeah. So something really big typically it happened in their life. They're in a really hard spot. Yeah. Yeah.

And so you were learning skills to give to other parents that would help you move away from any fear -based or shame -based approaches, right? Whereas I was in the school system and I fear was still kind of used by teachers in a sense of their intimidation or threats or things like that, or even just withholding their love from a kid or something like that. There was ways in which they were trying to control behavior because there were so many kids in the school and it was hard. So - And feel for them.

Yeah. The ratio there is extremely tough. So when we went into parenting, I definitely thought I'm going to do it different than my parents. Yeah, there's things I'm going to add, but I still had this mindset that, okay, you as the mom, you can be soft and nurturing, but inevitably as the dad, I'm going to have to be the heavy. I'm going to have to come in and be the one that really uses strength and power and fear to eventually get what we need done.

You know, and so I kind of left it off and I feel almost embarrassed telling the audiences, but I kind of didn't even engage with our oldest, you know, till she was about 18 months. You know, yeah. You know, because I just thought Sara's really good at six months at a year. I mean, she's got this covered, you know? So I kind of was more just, I go to work and I do this job and I, I leave you to nurture the baby. You know, I had this kind of like real stereotypical gender role kind of going on, you know? And, and, but it really was just, I was afraid.

I was afraid of messing it up. I knew I was pretty incompetent. You hadn't been around babies. I'd never been around babies. I'd never held a baby before our own baby. At least that I can remember. I think maybe I held my niece or something like that, but I not for long. I remember trying to feed Abby the first time. And I tell parents when I'm coaching this, there was a time where you left to go to work at about nine months. You were going back to your job and you left her with me to feed her. And I was so tense that she was feeling it and wouldn't eat.

And so then I just, I was felt such a failure. I ended up having to drive her to the babysitter's house that had watched her sometimes and she was a skilled mom and she was able to help feed Abby. And I was just like, why am I such a loser? Why do I suck at this? So I even more was apprehensive and turned off by the whole job of engaging this parenting stuff, you know? And, and, but I felt like, get them to about two, two and a half, three. Okay. I've spent time doing that. Cause at church I done.

three year olds for a long time at church. I felt skilled at that. So it almost was like, just wait till they get to three. You wanted them talking. I wanted them talking. Like able to move around, talk to all the things, and then you were ready to jump in. Yeah. And you had even more bought into, you know, more emotion coaching, inside out type of parenting. You were more seeing their emotions as ways they were communicating, not things that were just frustrating or annoying. You know? Now somebody shut down, but it was, yeah.

Yeah, and so that to me just looked weak. It looked really like, I wanted control of our home instead of teaching the kids how to control themselves. And so you were coming from this completely new framework that you had had the luxury of doing all the time at work and I hadn't used any of those tools. Yeah, I really wondered how people had kids without the training I went through. Yeah, I was very fortunate, very grateful for those opportunities because I learned and grew so much.

before we even had kids and then grew even more, had access to a lot of great information and resources. Well, and that's what we've even discussed. It'd be great to have pre -parental counseling, you know? Like when parents are about to have... Or in those early times. Yeah, to do the same kind of... We've thought about it. So any listeners who think that'd be a great idea, let us know because I think it'd be great to do the same kind of assessment type stuff, similar to what you do for pre -marital, and then really bring these things to light because it really was probably gonna destroy our marriage, you know? I mean, I definitely was more...

leaning more and more and more towards, okay, Sara, that's your thing, you do, I'm gonna do the thing I do, because I didn't understand it. And so for any parents who are struggling with this, that was the biggest thing for me is I didn't understand it. I had no framework to understand what you were trying to accomplish. It was confusing to me, it was irritating to me. Even some of the outcomes you were getting, although you understood them, they seemed negative to me.

You know, it seemed like the kids were crying too much. The kids were, you know, so, but once - Big emotions instead of, yeah. And you're the expectation a lot of times is just calm. Yeah. And that's when things are good. If a child is upset, then that's not - That's bad. Yeah. We don't want that. Right? Shut that down. Yeah. So then Brennan came along and now having two kids, I'm sure as all the listeners will realize that makes it even more complicated. You know? So, so -

I am thankful that Abby, when she was born, she had these big, big emotions. So she really caused some of these conflicts to come to the surface. And then Brandon came on, he wasn't as, his emotions weren't quite as big, but still more sleepless nights. More of us having a hard time finding self care and time to just really do what we wanted to do, right? And I felt like we weren't spending as much time together as a couple. So therefore our communication - Everything was stretched. Parents, you all know.

You don't know how it goes. I mean, you're already thin, you're already stretched, and then it just, you get stretched even more. So if you can imagine, there was these nights where Abby would be getting up at 3 a and refusing to go back to sleep. And I would be getting so mad. So I would be like yelling at Abby to go back to bed. Abby would be telling me that doesn't work, it doesn't help. And I'd be like, I don't care if it helps, just go back to bed. And you were sitting there watching this going, what is happening?

this isn't good for us. I don't want this for my kids. And I know you inside were kind of thinking, I don't know how much longer this is going to work. Yeah, I was getting kind of, I was, I was concerned. Yeah. I remember thinking if we keep going this way, I didn't know how, how different we were. I remember thinking how very different we are in our approach. And then I had, we probably already were. And then I had learned some things and gone even further in this different direction than you.

And I was concerned for sure. And so then there was a moment in the moment that that changed me was thank goodness I got access to some great training. Right. So I had access to Dr. Becky Bailey. It was able to fly to Florida and learn from her. And once again, I did that training, not for my own kids. I did it for my job. You know, I did it to be a better school counselor. But when I was there and I was able to hear her say some of the same stuff you had already said, but Becky just says it in a different way. Yes. Yeah.

I was able to receive it, to hear it. And, you know, I mean, just, I called Sara up in tears and realized that what I was doing was actually hurting our kids. It wasn't helpful, you know? And I know for you, that was kind of an answer for prayer, right? Yeah, it was for sure. What was getting that phone call like when I told you that I was making that change? The best. It was, it was really, cause I really was worried and, and I knew we still had a long road ahead of us.

but to at least have you understand, because I didn't know another way to say it. So I was so grateful for another voice that could say it in a different way that could help. And you were open to that voice. We'd had so many conversations, after a while it gets, I don't know, just repetitive and not going anywhere. And so I was very, very excited and I can't even express what a relief it was. And it was awesome. When I came home,

I now had a picture of what you were trying to do before it was foggy, it was unclear, it made no sense to me. And you couldn't, and at that point I will say, I can see where you would question the success of it, but then you had a voice there going, I've done this with thousands of kids and there is great success on the other side. And, and I couldn't give that to you in the way that this other person could.

Yeah. And so when I came home, we immediately started diving into the information, the books, and for the first time ever, we were finally hand in hand. We were a team. It wasn't me against you. It wasn't me judging you. It wasn't you judging me. It was us together. Now, of course, over that time, there's been a lot of disagreements, right? But the difference was the first step, and this is what I want to tell any listeners listening now, the first step that that helped us do. Once we dived in to getting some coaching, reading some books, and really understanding,

it helped us create a unified picture of where we wanted to go. For the first time ever, I thought, okay, it looks like the way I want to do it looks a little different than the way you want to do it. But we're actually getting in the vehicle and driving to the exact same place, right? And now I was like, that's where you wanted to go. I want to go there too. Right. And now it didn't. Now you doing it different than me went back to when we were dating. It was like,

This is so interesting that you do it different than me. You know, like, you're going to get to that place by doing that. That's interesting. Because I was going to get to that place by doing this, you know? But we both agreed inevitably that's the vision that we have. When our kids leave our home at 18, this is what we hope they are saying about how we raise them, right? Yeah. And I think what you're highlighting is we still have times we have to come together and go, wait a second. We have this shared goal now.

which is really helpful, because then when we come together with those differences, we're talking about the same shared goal and the pathways to get there. But in that, you still have your personality, which I think the listeners, everyone's seeing, it's very obvious that we have very different personalities. So you still go with your personality, your strength, you are louder, you still bring all that in, and I still come with my personality too. So there's still differences.

but we have that shared goal, the conversations go very different and the judgments, those I feel like have, we're just an entirely different place. Yeah. So here's what we want to do. We know how much coaching helped us, how much having people who knew where, you had this vision already, spending time with them and helping them articulate or helping us articulate what that vision was.

made all the difference to how we were raising the kids, but also in our marriage. Well, anytime we had that, wait a second, your way, my way, what's this look like together? We had a source to go to outside of ourselves, a trusted source, an experienced source, and that has been wonderful. We still reference. Yes. We still will do that. Well, it also gave us a resource that anytime we had disagreements, we had access to somebody to go, hey, what do you think about this?

every time they would agree with you. But so typically you were the one doing it correctly. And I was still caught up in this old way of thinking, right. But it helped us come back and go, okay, well, let's trust this because I think that's the hardest part is when you're changing the parenting, there is this fear of like, we don't know, even though we have this vision, we don't know anybody else doing this, right. And so having somebody else who had done it to actually say, Hey, listen, we were right there. And this changed everything. So so what this is all leading to, Sara is I wanted to really offer something great to our listeners, okay.

So I know there's a lot of listeners who go, you know, that'd be awesome. I'd love to know somebody like that. I was like, well, you do, you have access to us. And so on this podcast, if you're listening to it today, what I want to do is give away four free coaching calls. Okay. So what that looks like is if you're interested, I'm going to accept the four first ones who email me at kyle at art of raising humans .com. So it's kyle at art of raising humans .com. Just email me and say,

I want one of those free coaching sessions, okay? And then we'll set it up and we'll do a 30 minute coaching call for free, okay? And just you and your spouse could be on that call together. We'll hear about some of the issues and then I'm gonna give you some tips and skills to change how you're viewing that, all right? So we're really excited to offer that because such a gift to us. Yes, I'm so grateful. Like I said, I am a whole different person and I feel like I brought, my parents gave me so many wonderful things.

I could take those, this just enhanced all of that, it helped us grow. I'm very, very grateful for the wonderful people who have mentored us and given us information. Yeah, so if you're listening to this right now, get on there. If you're interested, email me, because I'm taking the first four ones to do it, okay? So I hope this message was helpful to you, because I know many of you, this is probably the biggest struggle.

is one of you is reading the parenting books and looking at all the stuff on TikTok and Instagram going, I want to do it differently. And the other spouse isn't looking at it at all and saying like, I don't want to do this. This is crazy. This ain't working. I don't want to do it. And so we want to help you as a couple to come together to be able to raise kids that are free from fear and shame and instead know how to be self -disciplined, self -controlled, respectful kids. And I know that's your heart too. So,

I hope this is just like you're smiling right now going, yes, I want that. Okay. So thank you so much for taking the time listening. Please share this podcast. Tell other friends if you think it would help them, but let's get those four free coaching sessions signed up soon. And we'll look forward to talking to you in the next podcast. Thank you for listening.