Episode 118

So many parents these days are trying to leave a different legacy for their family. And they're saying, I want to change how we're doing parenting. And many of you've jumped on that and courageously have decided to get away from fear and punishment. And you're wanting to implement a different type of way of doing discipline that looks more like us together, us connected, us co -creating a different type of family. But whoa, you've run into some obstacles. You know what I'm talking about, where the kids who were raised,

 

in the other type of model, some of those kids are like, what, what are you doing? And so in today's podcast, we want to address that specific obstacle where we're going to give you five like ninja moves that you can do to help get buy -in from those kids. I'm telling you these five steps, these five ways in which to, to, to, to invite them into the process will completely change how you're, you're doing this with the kids. And it's going to make success much more likely.

 

to happen. So before you jump in, take a moment to rate us, review us, you know, give us the five stars. We love those. Those are awesome. And leave a comment. You know, we'd love to, we're still on this goal of wanting to get to a hundred or more. So we'd love for you to be a part of that journey with us means a lot to us. But also, like we said in these other previous podcasts, reach out to us at Kyle at art of raising humans .com. Cause we love your ideas and your suggestions on future topics for the podcast.

 

So take a moment, do those, and then jump in to these five steps we're gonna give you to help get buy -in from the kids as you're on this journey of changing your family.

 

Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. And I'm sara. And sara, you know, there's a lot of parents who are wanting to change their parenting style. Yes. You know? Yeah. Because we're all learning and growing. And we had a lot of information. Our parents, all the people who have raised us and taken care of us did what they knew to do. And we're always learning and growing. We keep revamping our parents. When we get new information, we're like, let's do that.

 

Right? So I'm sure there's lots of parents out there who are going, I'm going to start doing this. I'm going to, I want to drop that. I want to do this. Yeah. And that's really great when the kids are really small or not even born yet. Right? So it's like, it's great. If you're changing it before you have kids or the kids are little babies, you know, then it's like, cool, let's change it now. The thing I'm seeing a lot, you know,

 

when I'm coaching people throughout the world and also just meeting with people here in Tulsa is They're changing it and some of the older kids are kind of mad. Yeah Because they're confused about what's going on. Yes. I mean like hey That's not what you did with me. Why are you doing it with them? So that or if they're used to this system, right? Yeah, we have this

 

this dance, the way our family works. Yeah. And all the sun, the dance has changed. Yeah. What, you know, and so you'll see them still acting in that dance and you're trying to do a different dance. Yeah. And that can really kind of create some problems. Well, and so if you're a parent, yeah, if you're a parent listening to this podcast and you're like, yeah, we know we were in the midst of that, or we're getting ready to make this change. We're seeing some of this. Yeah. What's this going to

 

So I'm getting a lot of feedback from kids, you know, like it expresses itself as anger, but really what it is when we when you get down to it, it is confusion. Like you're saying about this change about what's going on and like, what are we doing? You know, like with before, when this happened, that happened. It was like clear cut, you know, there was, you know, definitely if that kid did that, and they broke a rule, there was a clear infraction. And it was, you know, but now it's confusing because like,

 

the parents, and the parents a lot of times are confused because they're trying something new. Right. And it may or may not go so well. Sometimes you're fumbling along. You may start out with one intention and then you're shifting halfway through. And so you're kind of all over the place with it, trying new things and your kids definitely feel that. Yeah. And so there's the confusion, but then underneath that is also some hurt. Yes. You know, because, because especially these older kids,

 

who were raised a different way, you know, there is a lot of stuff that gets in their head of like, why, why did you do this to me? And now you're doing this. And I think even like, I remember growing up, sara, even as my parents, and this is real common in a lot of families back in the day, but even currently, where

 

Maybe parents do learn some. Maybe it is just they got tired. Maybe it is they're just less afraid. You know, like their first one, they were really afraid. So, you know, their hands were kind of closed and they were gripping, you know, because they're just like, we got to get this right. We can't screw up. So they're they're like super worried about getting it right. Or they had the time and focus because you just had, you know, I mean, that's true. Right. Yeah. And that's like the the sugar or the TV or the certain things when we just had one.

 

really changed from when we had three and we're trying to balance all those things. It just looks different. And so of course it's gonna change, right? So yeah, but I remember a common complaint for us as kids was like, why is the youngest one getting away with that or getting away with this? And so it may have been growth in my parents, but I think at Oscar's been they were just more tired. They were just more busy. We can't stand top of all that. That's right. And so maybe we thought that was a big deal before. So some of that I think naturally is good.

 

because there is like this more relaxedness that can happen where a parent is just less on edge, you know? But I think for a lot of our listeners, sara, it is like, they're wanting to make a dramatic shift. So we hope as you've been listening to this podcast or as you've been reading books and you're saying we want to move away from using punishment, from spanking, from timeouts, from fear and control, you know?

 

And instead really empowering the kids, we want to be more of a discipleship type model or disciplinary teaching and guiding. Yeah. Connection being the key. And so when you're making that shift, I mean, I'm trying, I put myself in these kids shoes and like, that would be so mind blowing difference than the other model. Yeah. You know? And so right now, sara, when I'm talking to a lot of kids or talking to parents,

 

There is a lot of confusion, hurt and anger around this. When I'm talking to them one -on -one, they're saying things like, it just makes no sense. When they did that, mom and dad should be doing this. And it's a lot of they should be doing more punishment. There should be consequences. There should be all these ways that that kid should, something bad should happen to them because they hurt me or they hurt somebody else or hurt something. Yeah. The same thing that the parents believed had to be done.

 

And so you teach your children this just has to be done. And then you think, wait, there are other ways to get where we're wanting to go, to raise children who are responsible and thoughtful and all the things, right, respectful. There are other ways to accomplish that goal, but that child still has that old rhetoric going through their head. And they're like, wait a second, what are you doing here?

 

Well, and I say not only that the old rhetoric, but they also lots of them are going to schools where that's happening in school to where they're also seeing in the world, just the world in general, there is a sense of like, you do this, you get this, right. And so a big shift of that is not only in the family, but it's, it's saying like, listen, family is different. It's not the same as all of those places, you know, sure, but I like to see the school change and where the school isn't using such a punitive model, like a lot of schools still do what it but but

 

The difference is in the home, we have a relationship, right? So it isn't the key to this parenting stuff is we're pulling on the relationship to where we are then teaching skills that may be a school or a court system that may not be their intent. Their intent is more just to detour the behavior. So they're gonna rely on punishment, they're gonna rely on fear, they're gonna rely on these things because in their mind, they're trying to control a mass amount of people.

 

You know, as opposed to any relationship with these people, any reason for these people to follow them other than in order to avoid this outcome, you'd better do this. Yeah. So I think that's the challenges when you're changing it is not only did the kid have that happening at home, but then their brain was wired to believe this is how it is because it's how it is at school. It's how it is when they're looking at the news. It's how it is there too, right? Like everybody's saying, well, what's the punishment for that or what's that? So they always believe this equals that. So

 

So now if you are passionate about changing your parenting style, if you are running into this issue where the kids are confused about what you're doing, and I find almost every family I'm helping, this is the case. We wanted to give you clear steps that you could take to really help change those dynamics with those older kids who are feeling hurt and resentful and confused, okay? Because they can actually be a huge help, sara, in making this change. Yeah, huge, huge.

 

and it can actually be healing for them if there's been some breakdown in relationship or something, it can actually heal some of that in there just by these conversations and things that we're gonna get into. It could be a chance to grow the relationship so much more deep, right? I'm saying when I'm doing this with kids, sara, it is so cool how they want this. Like when I show them a different way, they're like, yeah, I actually want that way. But it's like their brain can't imagine what this other way could look like.

 

just like the parents felt, like how you and I felt when we first started, we couldn't imagine what does it look like to have a family where we're not using fear and punishment as a way to control behavior, you know? Yeah, it's chaos. Yeah, so the first step, the very first, most important step that I think needs to happen, and a lot of families skip this, okay, because it is very intimate, it's very vulnerable, is to go to that kid and I think really be open and honest about the mistakes you made, you know, to really ask for forgiveness.

 

to apologize for ways in which you treated them that you don't want to treat them anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this looks like, I mean, I would say even a younger child say, Hey, remember how when, you know, when you did something I didn't want you to do, this is what happened. I have learned something. There's other ways we can do this. And so we're going to be doing that. And with an older child, especially if they have younger siblings,

 

where it's gonna feel very kind of unjust, unfair, hurtful, then you wanna say, look, we were doing the best, we were pairing with what we knew, we've learned some new things. So just like if I learn new ways to take care of my car, if I learn new ways to garden, if I learn new ways to eat. Yeah, we just, whoa, look at that, new ways to stay healthy, yeah. Right, we're always learning and growing, right? Or that's the idea, you learn, you grow. You don't just start out one way and...

 

forever keep going that way, right? Just because you did it that way, we gotta keep doing it. Yeah, we learn new things as we wanna incorporate that. So I think you're just very honest and vulnerable and you tell your child, I've learned something new. I wish I would have known that when you were young. I didn't know it. And I loved you and I cared for you. I did what I thought to do, what I knew to do, but now I have more information. And I think you do. You say, can you forgive me? I wish I would have known that.

 

And you invite them into that and let them know what you know, just what's going on and what's your where you're going now. Yeah. And then the second one I had was and this is something I found that's kind of helpful to explain it to kids of all ages, you know, that that are even younger is discuss with them about how you're changing the equation in the family. So if you're listening right now, what I typically do if you have a piece of paper, you can write this down. But I'd like to show them that there's a simple math.

 

So most kids get this because they understand math or taking it is I put something like a kid does something bad and I just use that as a word to just explain behavior that's undesirable. So kid does something we don't like. Plus we add punishment, fear, control, consequences, whatever equals good. Okay. And the kid will go, yeah, that's how it was. I don't like it, but that's how it is. You know, I'm like, okay, what if we changed that equation? What if we did a different equation? What if we put the same thing kid does something bad or undesirable that we don't like.

 

And then you add, you just put a plus sign. We add teaching, encouragement, support, help, all those things. Wouldn't that equal better or good? And every time I've done this, sara, the kid would be like, well, yeah, that's obviously, I'd like that a lot better, but that's not how it works, you know? I mean, seriously, you can see the tension in their mind. Like, yeah, that would be all, that's all nice pie in the sky, Kyle, but that's not how life works. But what if it could? What if we could change the equation?

 

You know, I think if the parent can show kind of a visual way of this is what we're trying to do. Love the visual. Yeah, it's real simple. And if you show that visual, this is what we're attempting to do. Then that would be the next step because you're starting to invite them into imagining what you're inviting them into this new vision that you're creating with your imagination about what the family could look like, how we're going to deal with these moments. Yeah. And it'll be sloppy.

 

It'll be messy. And I think you have that in my jumping ahead. No, you're good. No. Yeah. Cause I think also in that conversation, my mind goes, it's not going to be perfect. You're not just going to go, we were here and we're here. And the child is very used to a different dance. So they will also, their brain, our brain, those patterns seeking. So it's going to go to those old patterns. It always wants to return to those patterns.

 

And it's a lot of work. I mean, if you've been on this road, I mean, we still work, work, work, work, work. And so you're rewiring and re and so just to let them know upfront, it's going to be a little messy. I'm not always going to get it right. And, and I'm going to be working hard to learn and grow and do, you know, and, and let them know it's going to be the same for them, right? It's also going to be different for them and they're going to be learning and growing and we're going to do this together. Yeah.

 

No, but that does go right into step three. So step three is it is going to be sloppy and messy. So there's going to be times that the kid is going to have resentment is going to have feelings of hurt on how things were handled. These are going to pop up occasionally. Right. And so even when things happen in the presence and maybe even it goes well, the kid is going to feel this like, but no, it should be this way. Or why didn't you do that there? And so I'm seeing sometimes, man,

 

that this will cause some, because the kid is trying to go back to what was before. Yeah, this is what I know what's happening here. And so to be patient with that, to understand that the kid, like you said, they're used to a certain dance. So I mean, I know this sounds silly, but the kid will try to recreate that same kind of cycle that you were in, because that's what, even though they may not have liked it, that's what felt comfortable and normal. And this new way is unknown and scary. Yeah. And it even encouraged me.

 

If you have any adult children or older children who are then, you know, let's say you have a 19 year old and you're changing it with your 12 year old, you're gonna keep seeing that and it can crop up at different times. You may have the conversation, feel like you've kind of worked through it, but then something else pops up. Now it's curfew and your other kids go, wait a second, this is what we were doing for my curfew, what's happening with their curfew? And so just realize,

 

those things could keep popping up over time and you just wanna be mindful of that. Yeah, to listen to that, to empathize with that. And then that leads to step four, where then, remember, this isn't just about us changing as parents, it's about us raising healthy human beings, you know? And so we're trying to become healthy human beings and we wanna invite them into that. So step four is like inviting them to being a part of the change and giving them the freedom, this is important, to question.

 

when they're confused and how something is handled. Because the goal isn't for us to just quote unquote do it right. It isn't like, we did it wrong, now we're gonna do it right. That isn't what we're teaching here. We're trying to say we wanna do it in a healthier way, in a way that more is congruent to the humans that we wanna be. We're gonna treat you the way we want you to treat us. So we're trying to make a family, we're actually congruent to those values.

 

when the kids are like, wait a second, that don't make no sense. I don't understand, why did you do that? Why? Like, yes, question us, come back, ask us those questions. Because there might be times what we're doing is not congruent with what we said, you know? And it's gonna help them also question themselves and be more like thoughtful, like, why did I handle this that way? Yeah, no, I love that. I think the story of humans is we are learning and growing, right? So it really isn't a judgment on bad good.

 

It's a journey. And so the more you want that door open with your children to journey with them. And again, they're going to learn and grow by watching your process, by inviting them into that process. And it helps your relationship because then things don't sit there and just sort of build and resentment builds and hurt builds and anger and all this stuff builds because they know they can come to you and lay it on the table and you guys can work through it.

 

And what this goes back to a podcast we just did a couple weeks ago, sara, about communication, right? And how important communicating with your kids is, is when you're, this is a big change. And so it may start out with like we recommended in the previous podcast, go listen to it now if you haven't, we'll first finish this one, then go back on to it. But like having these family meetings of like, when we communicate these changes, part of that communication is them communicating back to us.

 

this conflicted stuff within them that so many kids will come see me and discuss with me about how frustrated they are that the parents said they were gonna change this. And in a kid's mind, it means like, bam, it's done. Now, they're not understanding what a huge change this is for you as a parent and that it is gonna be messy and sloppy. And I think just like saying that to them, almost like if we were trying to learn a new way to cook food.

 

Sometimes the food's gonna come out gross. Sometimes we're gonna try certain meals we don't like. But sometimes we might still go get the whatever we used to eat, the fries and the yeah. In the heat of the moment, we're really hungry. We might go revert. That's right. And so to realize that, I love that because then the kids are going like, wait, I don't have to be perfect either. So when I make change, it is just a process that we, this is a slow growth. And so, man, I just think it'd be so cool for these kids.

 

to be able to be a part of that conversation, to know at night you're chatting with them and say, hey, I have a question. When you did that, that doesn't seem like what you said you wanted to do. That seems kind of hypocritical. And I know for me, at least in my home, that's not something I could have said. That's not something you would ever have the freedom to bring that up. And then the kid now can really start thinking about what is it they want the family to look like? Do I need to beat myself up every time I mess up?

 

Maybe I don't need to punish myself when I quote unquote do bad things. I can instead support myself. I can instead encourage myself like my parents are trying to do, but it is a work in progress. Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me very much of growth mindset. If people, if you love growth mindset, just the, it's not just mistakes are bad. Avoid all mistakes. We never mess up. It's that's bad. This is good. It's a, we are all working and we are all learning and growing. And so

 

we do things and we go, huh, you know what? I think I want to do that this way instead. And it's really just inviting them to look at their own life and their own decisions and behaviors and go, you know what? That wasn't getting me. This is what I want. So it's not getting me where I'm going to want to go. So I'm going to just kind of shift over here. I'm going to learn and grow instead of looking at that and just, I made a huge mistake. I messed up. I, you know, it's a different way of thinking and going through life. It's like, you're always a step ahead, honey. Cause

 

question into step five. Step five. That's why I have the notes in front of me. Keeps me focused. Step five is to model to your kids that you're not only wanting to be a great teacher, but also a great learner. You know, that really, man, the best teachers I worked with as a school counselor, sara, were fantastic learners, you know, that you guys all know that if you're listening to this podcast that the teachers

 

that are frustrating to be taught by are ones that think they're just done learning. It's their job just to teach you. Got it all. I'm done. Yes. And so as a parent, we don't have it all. We don't know what it means to be this human we're wanting. We're moving towards that, right? And really, our growth and journey very much mirrors our kids, you know, in that sense. And so there are things we know, but there's other things we don't know. And so the more our kids are invited into this and understand that

 

you're always learning, you're always growing. If you're open and receptive to doing that, then the kids can also get on that same journey with you. Yeah. So it's not, yeah, it's not a fixed mindset. It's a growth mindset that, that, that we are changing this. It's going to be messy and sloppy, but we are moving towards something better is the hope, right? And we're getting help. We're doing things like we're getting coaching. I thought this idea, sara, of like,

 

if they're getting coaching from somebody like us, you know, or they're reading books as they're telling the kids like, you know, I just read this book today. Here's what I learned about brain development. Or, you know, we did this the other day, I was reading some of the book that kind of says, if we tweak it like this, it would work better. I mean, if you have these older kids, I'm thinking like, by older, I'm thinking like 10, 11, 12, these kids on up will love that. And be like, that's interesting. I didn't know that. You know, or if you're you're watching a video about parenting, like the kid watches it with you and we're learning like, well,

 

Why would we do it that way or how would that help? And then they can actually start doing some of that stuff with their younger siblings, you know, and be a part of that. Yeah, I just I love because what do we want to give our kids this idea that they don't have to be perfect and they're not perfect. They don't have to be perfect that they can go through life and learn and grow and tweak things all the time in relationships and work and all the places. And so here we are here. We're doing it where they're watching us do that. We're doing it together.

 

and they can carry that into life without holding this, I've got to have it all right now. I've got to have all the answers, know everything, be perfect right now. Well, so what I love about these five steps, I'm going to reiterate them. So if you're writing this down or you're taking note, because these five steps are not ones that you'll just do once, but you'll do these five steps over and over again. Okay. So number one was really leaning into that vulnerability, apologizing, asking forgiveness about how things were done in the past. Number two, discuss with the kids,

 

the changing equation in the family and how we're working more towards the second equation where when things are done that are bad, we add to it support, encouragement, patience, grace, all these things that we want done to us, that's gonna equal a better outcome. Number three, let them share any resentment, any hurt that they have about how things have been handled in a way that isn't congruent with that equation. Number four, invite them into being part of that change, helping them hand in hand with you.

 

co -create the family that not only you want, but I guarantee you the kids want as well. And then number five, model to them how to be not only a great teacher, but a great learner. And so these five steps, I know you and I are all constantly going through these in some way. Yeah, we are. And I love it. Yeah, and sometimes it's tears, sometimes it's laughter, right? But I believe it always brings us closer together.

 

And that to me is the beauty of this parenting approach is even in this messiness, even in the sloppiness, all of those mistakes even bring us closer together as a family. It's not perfection. It's not about doing it right, but it's about doing it together and co -creating the family together. So I hope that gives all the listeners a vision of what we're discussing about when you're jumping in, this is so courageous of you to try to do this differently.

 

to leave a different legacy for your family. And if you want help with that, wanna encourage you to reach out for help. This isn't something you need to be doing alone. sara and I love helping parents throughout the world to make these changes in their parenting, but also with their families to create a lasting legacy that justice is more connected and is more honest and more healthy. So if you need help with that, reach out to Kyle at artofraisinghumans .com and we'd love to help be a part of that journey with you.

 

Thank you for joining us. Have a great day.