Episode 134

Episode 134 Transcript:

Have you ever heard of emotional intelligence or do you know what it means to be an emotionally intelligent person? Are you interested in raising kids that have emotional intelligence? What does it even mean to have a kid who has emotional intelligence? This is a subject that Sara  and I, ever since we've had kids, we've been fascinated by and really interested in becoming more emotionally intelligent. mean, that sounds like a great idea. It sounds like a really awesome thing to have kids.

who are really smart when it comes to their emotions, how to manage them and how to utilize them in a positive way. And so that's why today we wanted to introduce you to a really awesome person in the field of emotional intelligence. Her name is Stephanie Pinto. She speaks to people all over the world about this subject. She's an author, she's an international speaker, she has her own podcast and we're just really excited.

to introduce you to her today, to have an in-depth discussion on not only what does it mean to be emotionally intelligent, but to give you five easy steps to help start becoming an emotionally intelligent parent and therefore start raising more emotionally intelligent children. But before we dive into the podcast, please take a moment.

If you haven't done this already to leave a review, to leave a comment, we love reading the comments and hearing how this podcast is impacting you and your family. And so it just means a lot to us. It really is the kind of the capital of how you move your podcast and get seen to reach other families and other people. So we appreciate you taking the time to rate it and to put your comments and now sit back, maybe even get a pen and a notepad and get ready to learn aboutemotional intelligence.

Hello and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hi, I'm Sara . And today we want to hit a topic that, out of all our episodes, I we're almost about to hit, I don't know, like 130 or something. We've never, we've alluded to it. Yeah, we kind of talk around.

We've never just said let's talk about emotional and and I don't know why because I love it I love emotional and tell it's so important and I'm so excited for today because I love this topic So so without further ado what we want to do We want to welcome all our listeners to our guest Stephanie Pinto now Stephanie Pinto before you come on Stephanie I want to make sure they know you're a multi award-winning emotional intelligence specialist and inspirational speaker She's the author of the best-selling book

from chaos to connection and host of her own cool podcast that we got to be on recently called the Emotionally Intelligent Parenting Podcast. So welcome, Stephanie.

Thank you so much for having me and I loved our episode and we were just talking before we record. My husband came in at the end and you guys got to meet him and we got to chat and yeah, so heaps heaps of fun. I loved it.

Yes. Well, and a unique thing you can all notice, she's got an accent because Stephanie is from down under. She's from Australia. And so that means what, what, that's always super cool to us. We love Australian actors. And because she's so cool, we do these podcasts like late at night, just so she's awake and ready to go. So we're, knocking this out like nine, late at night for us early for her. And so that way then she's, we're all, this is us at 10 o'clock.

That's right. That's right. So we're gonna do it. But you know, this is a unique podcast to Stephanie because Sara  is passionate about this subject. And that's why I'm gonna let her lead the interview. So you go right ahead.

Okay, you guys are be like you're gonna be pros that the stuff that I've heard on your podcasts and the episodes that I've heard and now conversation last time I'm like man I'm like preaching to the choir you guys know this stuff but anyway it's still gonna be a great conversation

No. Yeah. Yes. Yes. I don't, I think it's, you're always learning and growing and, and I want the reminders. I'm so excited about this. So I want to kick it off, but just what is, you know, the basics. Let's not assume we know anything. What's emotional intelligence? Why is it important?

Okay, yeah, let's start there. So if I'm feeling a little bit kind of cheeky and funny, I go, you know what, it's just being smart with your emotions. When not a lot of us were taught how to be smart with our emotions. And that's kind of my story. I was probably the world's most emotionally unintelligent person for a long time. So I've definitely taken the journey myself and I'm still on it. But if we go into more of the a bit more of an explanation, because this makes sense for people.

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is that being emotionally intelligent means we're able to be aware of our own emotions and those of others in the moment and to use that information to be able to guide our actions, make good decisions and adjust our behavior as we need to, right? In interactions or yeah, so it's kind of that I think a lot of the time people assume and I did when I first came across it, I was like, okay, so I've got a

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know how to manage my emotions and frustration and anger and things like that. That's kind of half of the puzzle. Like, as I said, it's kind of being aware of my own emotions. Yes, I need to have that self-awareness. But then the awareness of other people's emotions for me, it's my two kids who are seven and 10 or it's my husband or it's my in-laws or it's my friends or, you know, colleagues. I actually have to have this ability to like pick up how they're feeling, what mood.

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they're in what's going on underneath their iceberg. So that I can, like I said, use that information to kind of deepen relationships or get the best out of a conversation or a discussion with my kids about why not to leave their clothes on the floor. Like there's actually a whole lot kind of that goes on. you know, where I got trained, it was actually a place in the US, it's called the ISEI, which is Institute of Social and Emotional Intelligence. And what we learned there was that there was

26 individual like competencies or skill areas that make up emotional intelligence. So there's all these little subskills and some of them are emotional self-awareness, stress management, resilience, communication, team building and building bonds. There's, you know, obviously behavioral self-control and triggers, but there's 26. Like it's much more massive than people realize. And obviously I love it in terms of parenting an

people who live and work with kids basically, I'm like, we need to start doing this stuff.

Well, it'd be so great. mean, I think as you're talking, the first thing I was thinking for our listeners, I bet they can all, if they, if they're struggling, picturing what it looks like to be emotionally intelligent, I think they all can picture people they know who just are not just not emotionally and those people who just can't read the room or just can't seem to like, I'm thinking of those people who just keep telling jokes when no one's laughing or they, they keep talking when everyone's obviously done listening, you know, and you're just, you're looking at them struggle.

And that's when you go, that person needs some help with emotional intelligence, you know? And I think all of us can see that deficit, you know? But I hope it becomes more of a normal thing to see and understand what it looks like to be an emotionally intelligent person.

Yeah, 100%. You hit the nail on the head. Like it's the people who just seem oblivious to what is going on or you know, when you're trying to explain to someone something that's going on with you and it's really tough and they're dismissive maybe or they're like, you know, it doesn't matter. It's just a job. You know, it's nine to five or you know, they're just kids. You know, why you so stressed? Like they're not picking up that this is a real big, a real thing or a big thing for you.

let's say, and I often say to people, you need to really understand that you cannot argue with anyone else's emotions or experience full stop. Like you might disagree, you might think, well, I wouldn't handle that, or I don't think that's a big deal, but man, you cannot argue with how someone else is experiencing something because that, I mean, if you do, you're invalidating them. And unfortunately we do this with our kids a lot. We say things like, you know, it's a scratch, it's fine, it didn't hurt, or it was an accident, she didn't mean it, it's not itchy, just wear it.

That's not spicy, just eat it. Like you love this. So we're constantly kind of, and I've said all of these things, but yeah, I think it's really important to be able to, to recognize that if my emotions, let me rephrase that, other people's emotions and experience are as true for them as yours are for you. Right? such a good reminder. I tell myself every day.

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Hmm. That's so good. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good reminder. Yeah. Write that down. If you're listening to that's good. Yeah. Okay. Well, I love what it, how, kind of what you're talking about. It's really sort of being aware of the feeling and then kind of being able to go inside and go, what, mean, like a thing can happen. So talking about, okay, a thing can happen. Let's say my daughter, I have to tell her twice to clean up her room or to do something.

And I can be super annoyed by that because my belief system is she should do it the first time I tell her or she doesn't care about. And so my feeling, you know, it's like that. have this belief system behind or this trigger behind that and being aware of those things, or he could have a completely different reaction. He might have a different feeling. He didn't, maybe he's not bothered at all by it, or maybe he, you know, is sad because he feels like

you know, she just doesn't care. you know, so I just love how you point out an event can happen, a scraped knee or a spicy food or a child not doing what you asked them to do. But it's my belief. It's his belief. It's all those things behind that, that are part of that fuel of our feelings. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, 100%. So this is where it gets a little bit deeper than just knowing our own emotions. You, I love that you guys said this, really knowing your beliefs around the situation, let's say not picking clothes up off the floor. We have those unconscious or you know, they've been programmed into us since you know, we were little sort of thing. And so if we don't recognize that those, I want to say programs are running the show, we don't

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we don't have that awareness that, maybe there's, it's like the ability to fathom that there's another way of being or another way of doing things or another way of responding or just a different possibility. So, I mean, me and my husband are a perfect example, because I came from an English background. My parents are from the UK and they immigrated out here to Australia in the 80s, had us, and my husband's family is from Portugal. And so the Portuguese are very like ex-

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emotional explosive and you know, they say what they think and so we were like polar opposites and we have really had to understand that we're mostly on the same page but we get there through a different like a different path. I don't know, does that make sense?

Yeah, so, yeah, so I think for me and for him, obviously, we are learning to notice our own emotions and notice when we're feeling triggered, like this is a big, you know, kind of one of the cornerstones of emotional intelligence. Self-awareness is the first piece because once we have that awareness that, whoa, this is like bringing something up in me or like you said, Sara , I've asked you two times and you still haven't cleaned up your room. You know, what's, girl, this is grinding my gears kind of thing. Once you're at that,

kind of level, then you can just notice what that is, basically how that is driving your behavior. You're either gonna flip your lid and like yell at her, or you're gonna throw out a threat, like fine, if you don't clean them up one more, you know, and I have to ask you one more time, then you're not getting an iPad tonight. Like we don't realize that our mood and emotions, our emotional state, and I like to think of the nervous system, whether or not we're regulated and that whole scientific piece, because that just makes sense to me.

I'm like, if I'm not kind of calibrated or, you know, balanced, I am more likely to snap at my kids. I am more likely to blame my husband. am, you know, more likely to do this, less likely to be patient and tolerant and look beneath the iceberg at what's going on with my kids. So people don't realize this is what I'm trying to, I'm getting there. I'm trying to explain that. Yeah. People don't realize how much that, how much being attuned and aware of our emotions or not.

actually really drives our behavior and our language and the words we speak and our tone of voice and the body language stuff like that makes or breaks relationships that pushes people away. Like I can push my husband away if I'm in a crappy mood and then he gets cranky and then it's like a power struggle or an argument and then we just end up in saying with my kids. So I'm like guys if we just have have a little bit more awareness and have some you know more mindful of

our emotional state and our nervous system and what that's doing for us, then we can actually take steps to go, you know what, I'm not gonna come back and mention your room again. I'm getting stressed. I need to go and have a cup of tea or I need to go and, you know, let's talk about this later. Cause I don't wanna say something I regret and flip my lid. It's been a long day. You know what I mean?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yep. Yeah. And since we're on the, we, love kind of to, believe that parent first, you know, like we've got to do it before we can hand it off. So if you're sitting there thinking, okay, well, how do I, how do I do that? And I love you even mentioned it, doing it with your husband, you know, and that, mean, it sounds hard enough to do it for myself, but so can you give us some ideas? Like, how can I build that skill in myself to go?

okay, this is what happened, this is how I feel, or this is the trigger, the belief. I mean, what steps do I take? Because then it guides my behavior. So how do I change that dynamic?

Yes. Okay, so let me mention one of the quotes that came out of my book that people have really grabbed on to is that if we want to raise emotionally intelligent kids, we must first become emotionally intelligent parents. Damn it. like, it means we've got to work on ourselves. And, you know, that's what a whole lot of a lot of parenting and stuff is. It's re-parenting and working on ourselves first. But that

actually makes a lot of sense because you can't give what you don't have, you can't teach what you don't know. And that that goes the same, I think, for any skill, riding a bike or being a mechanic, you know, you've got to be able to embody and know your craft in order to teach it. So anyway, to come back to kind of your question, I'm actually going to talk about one of the books behind me on my shelf is called permission to feel and it's by Professor Mark Brackett.

And it's all about emotional intelligence. And he is the founding director of Yale University's Center for Emotional Intelligence. So there is a whole like organization center over there with you guys that is dedicated to the research and development of emotional intelligence for kids, for adults in the workplace, like schools, anywhere. So this stuff is like, it's no longer a, I want to say like a buzzword and it's new. No, no, this is like, the future is emotionally intelligent is what I want to say.

So anyway, in his book, he has this method that he describes and I love it because it's really simple and easy to remember and it's like an acronym, it's got five letters and the word is ruler as in like a measuring ruler. I don't have one on my desk. And so he says, if we want to, what I kind of say is like dial up our emotional intelligence and start to enhance that or work on it, not only for our benefit, but for our kids too. First, have to, the R is be able to recognize

how we're feeling in the moment. I don't know if you guys remember in that definition of emotional intelligence, I said to be aware of your own emotions and those of others in the moment and to use that information. So the three key words are actually in the moment because when we, hindsight is 20-20, we're like, I shouldn't have snapped at my kids. yeah, like I.

Yes. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I know. I know. You can always look back. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And most of the time that's where you find yourself. You find yourself an hour later, you reflect and you go, wait a second. Yeah. I know. Yes. In the moment. That's really tough. I know.

Yes. And then you have to, it's so hard, right? So, so to be able to recognise how we're feeling in the moment means like, my goodness, there's a whole, there's a whole kind of like, you know, a pro, you know, work for us to do in order to be able to do that. So I like to encourage parents and kids, like I teach my kids, I'm like, what does that feel like in your body when you're really mad because he hasn't given you the remote and he's chosen two shows in a row.

or episodes, you know, and, it's supposed to be your turn. So, and for me, it's my kids when they're not listening or whatever it is. So actually sensing that in your body, cause man, so before I did emotional intelligence, I was a pediatric speech pathologist. I learned everything about the head and the neck, like creating a speech, voice, following, fluency, everything. Did not learn that like anything about the body and what that was like doing for us in terms of sensations, interoception, the nervous system

Mm-hmm. I'm sure. Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. Yep.

So I was like super cut off from my body. was like, I don't know, I just get really angry and I snap.

That's right. No, you feel helpless and powerless to it. It just happens to me.

Yeah, nothing we can do. So now, like I am so much more aware when I feel like the hot, buzzy, tension type feeling and that's when I'm getting, I would say frustrated or feeling maybe, I don't want say angry, like that's kind of a surface level emotion, but I can sense that I'm not being listened to and that's frustrating for me or I feel, you know, resentful maybe and things like that. So yeah, noticing it in your body.

And being and that's that's a huge part of recognizing like, I'm feeling something here or, you know, when those days you're just feeling a little bit like, blah. And, and then, you know, I've now come to realize, my god, it's because, you know, grandma's been in hospital for a week and everyone's worried about her. That project I was looking forward to at work fell through my husband, da da da. Like, so recognizing is the first one. I know I went deep on that one. So the second part in ruler is then you understanding.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So U stands for understanding. So understanding what happened, let's just say what happened that has made me feel this way, like what has caused these emotions. It's almost like a path you kind of follow. So like I just said, grandma's been in hospital or that project fell through or my kids have left mess in the lounge room. So understanding and connecting how you're feeling to why. Because I swear a lot of us, this was me, have no idea what we're feeling or why. We just go, go, go.

Yeah, yep.

Yeah, I'm sure. yeah. Yep.

And we glorify being busy and like doing all the things. And then we were like, I think I'm burnt out or I've got this, you know, I've got to go to the doctor because I'm not feeling well.

Yes.

or are parents not even aware of why they're snapping so much at the kids? It's like, well, dude, look at your day. Like you've been go, go, go. You're like exhausted, you know?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. that's, that's probably another kind of, maybe we'll get to the R at the end. But thinking about that, what can I actually shift and change in terms of coping strategies? So then the L in the middle is labeling. So labeling my emotions. Not just happy, sad, angry, or stressed. How are you going? I'm really stressed. That's not even an emotion word, or busy. So actually having more emotional granularity.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yes.

is what it's called. It's basically just having a more specific or more nuanced emotional vocabulary because there is so much research that shows if we are even just able to name specifically how we're feeling, like, I'm feeling really down today. Even though that's not an emotion, even just saying I feel really down or I'm feeling really stressed or distressed or upset or anxious. Like even just naming it that

Hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yep.

immediately decreases some of the intensity of the emotion because we've just acknowledged it. We haven't just jumped back into our emails or scrolled on our phone. So yes, yes. So labeling it and that's where the saying name it to tame it comes from. And there are emotion wheels online. I've got some on my website. If you just Google emotion wheel, you'll find one of mine has over a hundred emotion words on it.

Yeah, yeah, yep.

Just try to avoid it. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Wow. I know. And there's some really fun ones. Like our favorite one for our youngest is exasperated. I love that. Like that totally describes her go-to emotion. She's just like exasperated so often. Yeah.

that I was like, my god, what is astonishment? Like, I never used that.

Yeah.

That's so cute. So that's L, labeling. And then E is expressing how we're feeling. So expressing the emotion. That kind of means like in the right way, at the right time, to the right person. Or maybe it's just expressing it to myself. Because as you said, Kyle, before, we might just be snapping at our kids and like, you guys make me so angry. We're saying it to the wrong person. Sometimes I know that if I don't feel supported or I've been doing the lion's share for whatever reason,

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

then the frustration with my husband, I take it out on my kids. Like that's not expressing it in the right way at the right time. Anyway, so being able to express how you're feeling in a respectful, non-blamey, shamey, judgmental way, but just saying, hey, I'm feeling really overwhelmed at the moment and I've got a lot on and can you help me out or whatever. Anyway, so being able to express it is the second last one. And then the last R is regulate.

Yeah.

So kind of once we've done all of those steps, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, all of that to get to that. Yeah, typically it's like you'll just start there. I just need to regulate. And they're like, it's not working. Like it's maybe if you did the other steps first. Yeah, that'd be more helpful.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. So, yeah, so regulating obviously is around what do I need right now? Like we can ask ourselves a set of questions or we can just think, how can I support myself to regulate some of these big stressful emotions or uncomfortable emotions I'm feeling? But yeah, some questions might be, what do I need right now? Or what is too much, what has been happening that's too much for me? What does my body need right now? What could I maybe take off my plate or what can I do?

in order to bring back some regulation or some calm or some clarity. So I kind of think of like almost two opposite. I don't know if they're opposite. Can I decrease my demands? Like what can I take off my plate? Or can I increase my capacity? Can I do more self care? Can I, I don't know, take, you know, take a day off once a month so I can do all my admin? I don't know. So I know that's really long and clunky, but I love the...

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's great. And I want our listeners to take a moment. Do you remember what the ruler stands for? Do you remember what they are? Because I want to take a stab at it. So was recognize, understand, label, express, and then regulate. So there you go. So those are the five. yes. Yes, I did it. Well, you know what I like about those, Stephanie? I remember even my own growth.

Let's see.

Mic drop!

from being not emotionally intelligent to becoming more, I remember this sounds silly, but one of the moments where I could see I was maturing or increasing my ability to understand this was it wasn't actually not yelling or not getting mad. was actually, I was yelling. I was getting mad at the kids, but it was almost like I was having an out of body experience. Cause I could see myself doing it. It was like happening in slow motion.

And I was still choosing to get mad and yell, but it was like successful that later that night I was like, wow, I really could see that happening. And so if I could see it happening, means maybe next time I could choose a different outcome, you know? Whereas before it had happened so fast, it just felt like I wasn't choosing it. I felt like was just, I was losing control. And so that was, it was actually kind of a weird realization of like,

That was successful that I actually know I chose to still yell at the kids.

I love that. Yeah, but it can happen so fast, right? And I think, at least I see this a lot online. This is a thing that lot of parents struggle with is managing their triggers and feeling like they just flick their lid at a moment's notice. So there's, and people say, what can I do and did it? And you know, I'll be responding and stuff in my community. But there's, as you can see, there's so many little moving parts before that, that kind of go into it. I do want to say,

It does.

reframing your internal sensations and experience is very powerful for when we feel like we're stressed or upset or, you know, our kids are not listening or we're having to do the lion's share or we're, you know, we're having some of these emotional reactions, reactivities, right?

Mm.

reframing what we're feeling inside because we can feel like the rising maybe in our chest of the anger and no one's saying or I've asked you to put your clothes away twice or you guys have left all your toys in the lounge room. Like we can feel that and we can go to straight to I'm really angry because you're not listening then we flip our lid. But if we can reframe what that those sensations are meaning if we can kind of I think Sara  you said like we've got these stories and these unconscious like these beliefs.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yep, yep.

If we can notice, well, that I can feel that rising, it feels really familiar. I'm gonna just exit for a second, I'm gonna head out the back, I'm gonna notice what I'm feeling in my body and I'm gonna just check, is there another way that I can think of or kind of add a story to what I'm actually feeling? Because I'm feeling the tension and I know my kids haven't done what they're supposed to have done maybe. But if we can instead of think, well, that's because...

Yeah. Yeah.

They are the worst kids and they're never helpful and they're, you know, they're little rats or something. If we can reframe it to go, it's because I haven't given my kids the, maybe I haven't given them the enough time to be able to do what they want to do, what they need to do. Maybe I've asked them at the wrong time, they're in the middle of the show. Maybe we need to recreate the routines and the ritual of like tidying up every night before we all go to bed and head off to our rooms. I don't know.

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Yeah. Maybe I haven't been consistent enough or intentional enough. Yeah.

So if.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think reframing rather than just going down that like track, the same track is really, really helpful, but it takes some, I think some curiosity and some patience. the, way that I, this wasn't mine and I can't remember where I've heard it, but a really great kind of, I guess, metaphor or analogy is that if you think about when we, when we are constantly flipping our lid or we're getting frustrated at what is, if you think of like a car,

Yeah.

Driving over a beautiful fresh meadow of grass stick with me if you drive the car the same way again and again and again What happens to the grass is that it kind of it gets worn down into the dirt of a mud Yeah, it creates tracks right pretty soon You don't even have to like steer the car you can hands off the steering wheel It'll just go that way because you've created those paths Obviously, this is the same thing as the neural pathways in the brain. We have these habits and the brain is built on habits

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yeah, guess there's indentions. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yep.

So it is very difficult to the first time or the first couple of times notice that you're going down that way and your kids have left the clothes out or they've made a mess in the kitchen and you're like, and then you think, hang on, I don't want to just yell like I'm working on this. I'm noticing it is really bloody hard to like turn the steering wheel when you're going halfway down that path and go and get it up onto the fresh grass and do a left turn. That's really hard. But the thing is, the more you do it,

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yep. Yeah.

and get some support, listen to podcasts like this and just fill your mind with, this is what we're doing, this is meaningful for me and I know it's so beneficial. That will become easier and easier. And then those paths, those pathways get worn down into the dirt and then that becomes your go-to. And the cool thing is that the other tracks in the grass or the mud, they will grow over eventually. So it's...

Yes, of course.

Yeah.

It's like we're just rewiring your brain. I'm talking about obviously plasticity and neuroplasticity and just changing behavior. it can be done. But I think it, you know, if we just look at the neuroscience, it requires repetition. It requires some support from people around us. Obviously not listening to maybe friends or family who are well intended, but you know that they might not have the best advice around punishments and consequences. and yet it's trusting that you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

this is how you want to do it. want to listen to your kids emotions. You want to honor your own emotions and you want to work with them that way, respectfully and in an emotionally intelligent way. yes, I just want to, I that's really good.

Yeah. I love that. Cause I think, I mean, we taught, have experienced this ourselves, you know, I mean, in different ways where his, his well-worn tracks were, some sort of anger outburst, know, some sort of upset feeling, right. And even sometimes there was something else behind that, but we don't know that till we jump off the tracks. Mine would be more like, just, just bury it, stuff it, continue on, you know, put your head down and keep working and.

All, all of those things and whatever your well-worn track is, you know, just doesn't serve you. Right. It's not serving our us. It wasn't serving our family. And it is so hard to redo those tracks. Cause man, you got years in there driving those tracks. So I just love the encouragement you provide that you really can shift it. And it will be hard. And, I know, you know, I want to kind of circle back around to.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know. would like to ask how you and your husband, cause I know we have been a source for that, but that's also been hard. Cause my tracks are so different than his tracks, you know, like how, how can that work in a dynamic? If you're parenting with someone and we're like, okay, we want to raise our emotional intelligence, know, cause it's kind of easy for me to go, know, you're heading down those same tracks again, you know, and vice versa, you know, but I mean, how, how could that work in a relationship?

W

you

that never happens to us. Okay, so, so I'm going to take a bit of a left turn. My ability and his to develop our emotional intelligence, not just with how we deal with the kids and those emotional moments and frustrations. I've actually come to realize kind of as we were saying before, that so my husband's that other person's experience and perspective is as true for them as mine is for me.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

So I can't like will him to come over to my side and do things like I do. Number one, he doesn't have the, was a pediatric therapist for 10 years. and then I've learned, like I have dived into emotional intelligence for a further five. Like I cannot expect him to see things, situations with the kids the same as me, because he hasn't got that background. He hasn't got the programming, right? He's coming from, like I said, a Portuguese family and you know, all the, all the,

Yeah.

Yeah.

melting pot and programming that came with that. So of course, we're going to see things differently. We're going to have a different perspective. So when, if and when he is a little firmer on the kids or a little bit too harsh in my opinion now, which obviously has like we've balanced. Let's say he was up here and I was down here and we've come towards this beautiful like middle part. There are still moments where I'm sure he's like, you know, you know, you shouldn't have let the kids like, why are you packing up? That's their mess.

Yeah, yeah.

Of Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we still have those moments, but I can much more quickly look at how he deals with the situation and me and go, yep, that makes sense. Like, no wonder. I get why he did that. Like if I was him, I would do the same and think, no, the kids can't do that. you know, that's not okay. So, and vice versa. it's kind of being emotionally intelligent is, and we're not perfect by the way.

Yeah. Yeah.

is having that ability to see the other person's background, their programming, their tracks, their emotions, their mood. Like if he's had one heck of a day where everything that could go wrong did go wrong, like I'm gonna give him grace for that and compassion and be like, you know what, like go chill on the computer, I'll bring your dinner and we'll play with kids later. Like, you know what I mean? So it's less, I just think it, having this awareness breeds a whole lot more patience and compassion and tolerance.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

and understanding rather than like, what do you, like I've been at work too, like get in here, bath the kids, like hello. You know, now I'm like, you know what, it's okay.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I was gonna say, I think you used a word that was been so important to us, which is curiosity. You talked about that earlier about being curious and that's where Sara  has helped me and I believe I've helped her as well to understand and become more emotionally intelligent by asking curious questions. know, like Sara  would just be like, how did you see that? Or when you said that, what was going on in you? Like, what was it that you were telling yourself in that moment? And just the help, helps the other person reflect upon it.

and therefore become more aware and be able to like recognize it and then go, yeah, I didn't even think about that. I wasn't even asking myself those questions. I was jumping right to that track, that well-worn track. And these questions now you're asking me are helping me see what's underneath all that and what's kind of guiding that. And so I think that's really been a really helpful for her to ask those questions with grace, with patience and understand that this is what a marriage is. It's us helping us

Thank

each other grow together to benefit our kids in the long term.

Yeah, I just think that is so beautiful and it's it takes work as I know you guys know and something that popped into my mind as you were speaking Kyle, it's a bit off track but when we can appreciate and even learn like I didn't again I didn't know this as a therapist that our kids brains are not fully developed until the late 20s research is now showing particularly that part of the brain which as you guys know the prefrontal cortex

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yep.

which does all this emotional regulation stuff and does all the problem solving and does all the conflict resolution. Like that stuff is not fully online for our kids. like I said, mine is seven and 10. Even if your kids are 15 or 18, you know, we cannot expect our kids to be able to regulate and handle their emotions maturely all the time or even part of the time.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

it's like expecting a traveler to, you know, give them a half of the map and expect them to get to the destination. Like that's wild. And so it's just a good reminder for me and maybe for everyone else to think how old is my child? I don't know how much, like, I don't know the exact neuroscience of how much they have emotional regulation they should have or how much empathy, but I know that it is not fully developed. It's not mastered. It's not totally online. And mine, cause I'm over, I'm like past my

Yes, totally. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep.

late 20s, you know, I'm in my 30s. So I don't have my S H I T together all the time either. And I have no excuse. I have a fully developed brain and I still flip my lid and I still melt down over a little thing and I have my moments. So then I look at my kids and I'm like, no, you know, I go from thinking like, what's wrong with you or you're being ridiculous or that's why you've been so dramatic. And then I'm like, no, that makes a lot of sense. Like

Yep, you're gonna melt down over the blue carp, not the red carp. And I don't need to take it personally, because that's just you're doing the best you can with the brain you have.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. I, I've said all the time, I just think, well, okay, they've only been on this earth eight years or something, you know, like it just helps me because we can get all upset and then to think, wait a second, you know, they've only had eight years to run through this thing or, know, however many years. And so of course it kind of helps relieve some of the steam or pressure or, or things that we're feeling, you know, it's like, we give them a break. need to give them a break. And I love that reminder.

And I find in myself that just helps me not be quite so upset, you know, or so whatever the feeling is, because I think, yeah, I guess that makes sense. You know, that thing, that part of their brain, it's still warming up. It's still getting going, you know? And then of course we still struggle. So I love that reminder and it kind of how, so if we're thinking, all right, my, my child's EQ, I mean, it needs to be developed.

How as a parent can we support that development? know, because we're hoping, man, by the time you're 28, I hope I can do my part to help that grow and help that develop.

Yeah. Okay. So part of me does always want to give a bit of a disclaimer in the, in the sense of we know our child's brain has to take time to develop, especially through the teenage years. So in that sense, we're kind of almost like captain limited. Like we can't expect, okay, I'll do all the things and I'll print off all the emotion wheels and the resources. And we'll have a conversation about emotions and feelings and behavior every night. And then like we're ticking all the boxes. Like we just, we just have to like,

Yeah.

accept an honor that they're and that they're not going to get it right all the time. Most of time they might not get it right and that that's okay.

Yeah.

There's a piece of time that just has to happen.

Yes, yes. that, like you said, Sara , that kind of takes the pressure off so that we don't, we're like, okay, well, that's this, they're acting how they're supposed to be acting, basically. Definitely not, definitely not. So a couple of things, we talked a bit about emotional vocabulary. So there are lots of resources and stuff online, but I tend to think, you know, books are amazing if you have younger kids and you're into reading books before bed, they're great.

And we're not failing. Yes, yes. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah.

but also just modeling how you are feeling and what's going on in your life, like age appropriately, they don't need to know all the details of the work project and whatnot. But I think too often we don't voice or vocalize how we're feeling, we just like shove it down, we get on with our work, we don't have time and you know, keep calm, carry on that kind of mentality. But actually if we can be a little bit more open.

course.

and have these conversations with our kids over a sandwich at lunch or taking them to soccer in the car and just having those conversations. It's almost like talking out loud, which is kind of beautiful in the sense of like that's developing your own emotional self-awareness and ability to be mindful. But yeah, we're modeling it for our kids too. Asking them questions at the end of the day, like the tuck in time for us. We don't always eat dinner together, like we've got different things happening, but tuck in time is when

Yeah. Yep.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

kids like their brain opens up, they the whole world like they want to chat, chat, chat, chat, they don't want to go to bed. And so I'm like, Okay, well, let's run with that. And, know, talk about what's happening and how you're feeling. And, you know, things like that. I think the other thing is, as we, kind of talked about noticing how it feels in their body and connecting that to emotions. So I remember having a girl that I worked with part of a little part of my work is doing anxiety therapy for kids. And she

Yep. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

was always really worried that she was going to be sick or vomit at school because one time about a year ago she had this milky drink from the school and then it obviously didn't sit well with her and she was unwell. So we were teaching her, me and her mom were teaching her basically interoceptive awareness which means being aware of the internal sensations coming from within your body. So that could be like butterflies, it could be bathroom needs.

It can be heart rate, can be emotions, can be temperature, body temperature and sweating and things like that. So we were teaching her like, what are some of those gurgly or butterfly riggly feelings mean? Well, it could mean that you might vomit or you're unwell. It could mean that you're hungry. It could mean that you need to go into a poo. Like actually expanding kids awareness of what they're feeling in their body and what the potential reasons.

Yeah.

Yes.

could be, maybe they're coming down with a cold, maybe they're, you something else. I think having conversations with kids about that, and Kyle, you said the word curious, I don't know if you said, you know, but that curiosity with, I wonder how that person's feeling, or I wonder why, I wonder why she did that, or I wonder why he said he won't let you play with those. I remember with my two kids, they were fighting over a balloon of all things, and we had like a packet in the cupboard.

Yeah, yes. Yeah, yeah.

And, my daughter didn't want to, she didn't want to let her brother use a balloon and he was getting really frustrated. so without swooping in, I let that go for a little bit to see if they could resolve it. They couldn't. So I went in and then it turned out that, my daughter was not going to let him have a turn of it and like play, you know, with a balloon. And so I thought, okay, without manipulating the situation, because we often think, well, no, they need to share or they're not being fair or,

Yes, yeah, yeah, we come in with our agenda. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And so and I said to her, can you see like, that he's basically jumping up and down and his cheeks are all red and he looks pretty angry, huh? And she was like, yes, but she didn't care at that point. And then I said, well, I get that he really wants a balloon. I get that it's yours. So I'm not going to force you to share it because she found it and blew it up, I think. And I said, but the thing is, I know that

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

He had a brand new scooter for his birthday, like a couple of months before, and she loved to use it and loved to hop on it. And like, he would let her most of the time because he also has a little BMX bike. And I said, I just want you to think about, because this is me trying to teach them like the impact of your actions on others. That's a thing, right? The less that you share or are kind to another person, they don't really want to help you. They don't want to be around you. Like that's just natural. And so I said, I wonder if, you know, if you share it with him or don't share it with him.

Mm-hmm.

Yes. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Is he going to be more or less likely to let you use his scooter that you've been using all week because you love it and you know, I know you like going up and down the driveway. So I was just trying to help her to see, how like notice how he's feeling. Think one further step. If I don't let him use the balloon and don't share it, then is that going to work out well for me or not? And on the flip side. And so I was trying to be like Switzerland.

Yeah. Yeah.

I was trying to be unbiased. But also I wanted, yeah, I wanted her just to think, no, I'm not gonna like that is yours and you don't need to share it. But no, there are impacts or there are, you know, consequences of whether you do or don't do things without making consequences a dirty word. anyway, so she actually did end up she said, Okay, well, and I said, you could just give him like, what's the word parameters? I said, maybe you could just say, look, you can use it for a minute.

and then give it back to me or as long as you don't pop it, then you can play with it. So she did, I can't remember what she picked, but you know, she kind of gave her rules and then they resolved it together. But if you think about like the amount of brain power that that took for me even, like, and she might've been six or seven, six at the time. my goodness, we cannot expect kids to have that level of conflict resolution and like situational awareness.

No. Yes. Yes.

and whole like managing her own emotions. blew this up, it's mine and I don't want it. Like that's wild to like no wonder there are sibling arguments and challenges because they just don't have that capacity, the sophisticated capacity yet to manage your emotions and you know speak, you know consider others emotions.

Well, when Stephanie did, to be honest with you, lots of adults don't either, you know, so I mean, that that's really why a lot of people, everyone who's listening, like, you know, you're surrounded by adults who don't know how to resolve those conflicts, you know, and even in their own life. So that's why they, they have to constantly cut out friends or they have to like isolate themselves from people who they can't get along with because they don't know how to deal with that interchange that, that, that interpersonal, you know, kind of

conversation that's happening. And what I think is so cool when you do this type of parenting approach where you are wanting to grow in your emotional intelligence, not only do you help your kids get like tracks worn in their brain that are more positive and more helpful and healthy, but you're actually then doing it to your own brain too. And what I've noticed then it helped in, as I did it with the kids every day, cause they give you opportunities a hundred times a day, then you get to.

It starts working in your extended family. It starts working in those conflicts that you never thought could be resolved, or it starts helping you with friendships that you're having disagreements with. And it's really cool how the kids can help you as you practice with them, just get really more emotionally intelligent and getting those skills in place to where then you can do that with other people. And I just think it's really powerful for them and it helps equip them to handle any conflicts they're gonna have with their boss in the future, future marriage conflicts, all those kinds of things.

Yeah, you're right that it is like emotional intelligence is for anyone any age kids, adults workplace home, I actually often say that home, the home and the family is like a mini workplace like it's a you've got to be a team. Yeah, so I like that you mentioned that because it's just if we're not. Yeah, I think it's it's reaches into every single relationship. And yeah, I would like to see.

Yeah. Yes. Of course. Yeah.

whole lot more emotional intelligence in like schools and daycares and preschools. I just think that would be what kind of a world would we have in the next generation that's exciting.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah.

Well, I know one of the things that comes up a lot and we maybe wrap up with this is when you are doing this, I think there's always this group of people who get afraid that if you're talking about feelings all the time, that you raise these kids who are just going to blow away with the wind and they're going to be so like constantly emotionally dysregulated and crying about everything. And so you're going to raise entitled spoiled kids. So what I'm sure you get that pushback.

So can you give your response to that fear that comes up in parents? even like- We're talking about feelings all the time. and even though Sara  and I do this for a living where we talk to kids about feelings, there are times where I'm like, come on, just get over it. I'm kind of done with this whole talk about, can't we just grow up and get over it? And I'll go back to that track in my mind, right? And I'll be like, enough of this, we talked about the feelings long enough, right? So what is your response to that when people give that push?

Mmm such I get it I get it so often and I get it like, you know from parents and I get it on Definitely social media, especially Instagram. my goodness And and I think why are these people on my Instagram if they really hate this like emotionally intolerant But I think what people don't realize is that being emotionally intelligent or teaching kids about emotions doesn't mean we're sitting in our emotions all day

and discussing them and not moving on from like the power of emotional intelligence and really that when it's, I want to say like done right for want of a better word is we're teaching our kids, let's say the ruler kind of acronym. That last part is regulating. It's knowing how to process, like how to deal with your emotions, how to accept them so that you're not shoving them down and how to process and release them and then move on with your day.

Yeah, yeah. Yes.

Set boundaries if you need to think no, that's made me really frustrated. And it's the second week now I'm to have a word with my boss. you know, so having conversations, moving through it, making changes, like I said, if we go right back to the start and the definition, it's using that information to guide your actions to make good decisions and to adjust your behavior, like on the fly. So like, it's really building this resilience.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

which is not like a stoic, I'm cold hearted and I'm like, you know, this John Wayne kind of, I don't know if that's the right person. You know, that mentality, it's going, no, we're gonna acknowledge it. We're gonna learn from it. We're gonna move through it so that we have a successful life. I reach my goals that I want, I work hard and I contribute and things like that. It's definitely the, well, the complete opposite of, I guess, permissive.

That is. Yes.

this concept of permissive parenting where we're raising snowflakes. So and there's there is, as I said, Professor Mark brackets, only one sort of center or organization that's looking at the and doing all this research, not a shred of evidence that shows when we bring emotional intelligence into a family or a childhood daycare center or a school that, you know, parameters or outcomes drop, like there's, I think some of the research off the top of my head is that

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Obviously, self awareness increases, behavioral self control ability to manage our strong behaviors increases, even things like kids do better on academic testing when their emotional intelligence increases, because they're able to handle and manage and test anxiety. Or my parents have, you know, talked about splitting up. And so they're able to like, you know, deal with those feelings and then do what they need to do in the classroom or out and about.

And there's tons of research in the workplace. Even one of them is that people with a higher EQ will go on to earn 33 % more in their career than lower EQ counterparts. Brings team cohesiveness and productivity and like, you'll fall down a rabbit hole when you're looking at how amazing the research is.

Wow, yeah.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah. Yeah. It is amazing. mean, the, know, cause I worked with so many kids who were traumatized, know, so emotions are big and people either think they're going to explode, right? Or you stuff them and I just emotional intelligence, how much it's, it's actually be able to be aware of what's going on. So I don't explode. don't stuff. I'm actually able to now.

choose something. I'm able to choose my path forward and I can think about my path forward for me and the people around me in my classroom, my coworkers, know, adult or child. You're then actually the emotional whereas isn't like you said to sit in the muck of it and stay stuck there, but you can actually move forward somewhere you want to go. And it's just the outcomes are just amazing. I'm

So glad we got to hear you and yeah, well, and if I can give a quick picture to add to what you said, I'm stealing this from Dr. Cohen where he talks. It's a technique I like to do with kids that I think speaks to exactly what you're saying is is lots of times when kids are overwhelmed and they're emotionally dysregulated, it's like the emotions driving the car and the kid is the passenger. Okay. And so that's not what we want. We don't want the emotion driving the vehicle, but lots of us are taught to just like kick that feeling out.

and then take over the car and we think the feeling left, but it didn't. It's just like hiding under the hood or it's like blocking the windshield. And so it still is there. It's still causing a disruption. So really to me, emotional intelligence is teaching the kid to move the feeling where it's supposed to be. And that's just in the co-pilot. It's supposed to be in the passenger seat. And so the kid's driving the car and they're with curiosity looking at the feeling and saying, what are you doing here? Yeah. Is there something you need to tell me?

Right. And then we can listen. So I started doing that for myself when I would get really anxious or overwhelmed with things, running the business or parenting. And I just would get curious as to what the feelings trying to say. And once I listened to it, it would go away, you know? And that's the whole reason why I was there. It was just trying to give me some helpful information. It actually wasn't there trying to crash the car.

I love that. Maybe I'll like steal that secondary from you.

I think it's from Dr. Cohen's book, Opposite a Worry. And I've actually sat in the with our own kids or with kids I'm helping, we'll act like we're in a car and we'll like move it over. And it's really cool when the kid says, what do you hear? I'll say, what did the feeling tell you? It's like really interesting what they'll come about. But it's really helping them erase because like I'm thinking like there was a time the example when I used it was when COVID was first happening. And of course, my business is based on seeing people face to face.

I was really anxious that we were gonna lose the business. And so was walking up and down like the hallway where my office is. And I was like curious, I was saying, hey, anxiety, what are you here to tell me? And I felt like anxiety said to me, like, you can't control this outcome. You you can't make this successful. And I looked at it and I thought, I never could. Like I never could before COVID hit, before anything, I didn't have control over any of it.

I thought I did. And actually this is really helpful that I remind myself that I don't because then I can let go of it. You know, and it was actually very freeing to just listen in that moment. And then I just sat there, is there more anxiety? And if there was, just kept, what else do want to say? And I just kept doing that. So I just think that's a really cool practice to help raise a little kid's self-awareness by just acting like you're in a vehicle. And, and then I think it's a good picture of like, we don't want a world where everyone's

having the feeling driving like a crazy person. You know, makes sense. Yeah.

Mm that is so good. Okay, that's the last takeaway then is to ask the feeling or ask the emotions that you're feeling like what are you trying to tell me? What are you here to say? Love it.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, so Stephanie, it's been awesome having you on. How can they find out more about all the awesome work you're doing to help people and help parents?

So probably one of the easiest places is my website because that's just my name. So Stephanie Pinto comm I Am on I have a Facebook community and that's called let's raise emotionally intelligent kids. So you're more than welcome to join that That's a public group and on Instagram. I'm at emotionally dot intelligent dot parent And then like you said, you know, we have the episode that you guys did on my podcast so people can find that

Okay. Yep.

Yeah. Well, and you're also consistently putting together these summits with great experts throughout the world. So definitely if you follow her, you'll get these access to these free trainings that other experts are doing and sharing more info. So definitely get on there, follow Stephanie and support this work and let's all try to become more emotionally intelligent people. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for being here. Yeah. And thank you all the way across the pond. Thank you for showing up. So, okay.

Thank you, guys. Thank you for staying up late.

Well, and I hope you have a great day, which is our tomorrow. So in the future, I hope you have a great day. Okay.

Yes. Thank you.