Episode 144

Episode 144 Transcript:

Every parent I know is worried about the safety and security of their kids online. And they're doing everything they can to try to safeguard their kids from predators and cyber bullying and all the kind of stuff that can go on that is so scary when it goes to being online and being on social media and playing video games and getting in chat rooms. So that's why Sara and I sought out

One of the best people in this field, CyberFurita is her name on Instagram, but her name is Furita Shaheed. She's an award winning internet safety expert and a Forbes 30 under 30 honoree. She founded SAKUVA and the Protect the Kids Online membership with the mission of helping parents protect their children online. She draws from her background in cybersecurity awareness, threat intelligence, informative experiences as a young gamer, navigating close calls with predators and online grooming.

She developed the safe method, a unique approach to teaching internet safety that emphasizes safe spaces and connection as the foundation of protecting kids online. Her work has been featured on NBC, CNN, BBC, the Wall Street Journal, Fox, the Fortune Magazine, and so on and so more, many other places too. She's worked with companies such as Meta, FedEx, NASA, LinkedIn, Common Sense Networks, and so on. She's currently serving.

on the Forbes board for the under 30 community and has been named LinkedIn's top voices in cybersecurity. So you are going to enjoy this conversation, but you are gonna walk away feeling so much more educated, equipped, and hopefully not as scared on how to keep your kids safe in this online digital age. And she's gonna talk about how to raise kids who know how to do this in a safe way.

give you specific tips. We're gonna go right into like, are the best apps? What are the best like phones? What are the best ways that we're gonna get all that specific stuff. So get ready to be informed, take a deep breath and feel like you're ready to really engage this topic that is just, know, daily with your kids. So before we go into it, please take a moment to pause, comment. If this is helpful to you, send us an email.

Kyle at artofraisinghumans.com. If there's other kinds of topics you want us to discuss when it comes to cybersecurity, because we might have her on again in the future as well to discuss some of those things. But also please leave a review that helps us be more seen and be able to connect with others in the community. So look forward to the conversation and you learning so much more today.

Hello and welcome to The Art of Raising Humans, I'm Kyle. Hi there, I'm Sara. And you know, Sara, one of the things that parents who come to us for help, one of the things that strikes fear in the heart of every parent is the internet and social media, right? Yeah, as a parent it's on my mind a lot. Yeah, and it should be, right? Yeah. Like it's kind of like some parents who don't think about it, you're like, why are you not thinking about that, dude? Like that's a serious problem, right? So.

So we stumbled across a fantastic guest that we really want to introduce to our listeners. name is Farida Shahid and Farida is a cyber security expert and has fantastic content on Instagram. know we've been like just eating it up. Yeah. Since we've learned. Yeah. So she has these really quick videos on Instagram.

giving you great tips. Farida, we were just watching the one this morning about Apple and the Apple phone, and because our kids have Apple phones, and so how do we help that? What kind of security things are there? But without further ado, we want to say welcome, Farida. Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Colin, Sara.

And what we're so glad to have you on because I know even before we started recording, not only are we going to talk about how to keep safe from predators and kind of that cybersecurity stuff in that vein, which is what I was first thinking, but you're also interested in doing cyber bullying and helping parents with that as well. So we're going to dive into all of that today, but I would love people first to kind of hear your story about how you got into this. Like why, why did you get so passionate about cyber security?

got my first phone at 13 and I had been begging for it for a year. I think it was the first, I had a Nokia phone that was like the light up, the green light up when you play snake games on there. And the snake games were just not cutting it. It was simple, it was cool. And I looked at the phone and I was seeing that smartphones are coming out. Everyone's having a smartphone, well, Black Bear was a huge thing. And then the Samsung Galaxy became a thing.

And so at first I wanted a Blackberry, but then it was just too much. know, like there's a lot of keys. And then I saw the Samsung Galaxy becoming a thing after a couple, I don't know, a year or two, I can't remember the timeline. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to try to convince my parents to get me a smartphone. And the only way I could do it was thinking about safety, because they didn't care about me missing out. Like they didn't care. I wasn't watching TV. So they're like, you're already missing out on TV.

Hmm

You're not watching Disney movies unless you're with your friends. Like who cares about a phone? Like you can miss it on that too. They're not trying to hear it. So I was like the best way to get them is to tell them that I could get kidnapped and I won't be able to like message you because I have to press all these buttons 10,000 times to get to the emergency or get to your phone number. And it worked. So I got my first phone and I was like, okay, now it's time to upgrade from a snake game to like real mobile games.

Yes, yes.

Yes, that is a compelling argument.

So I started playing mobile games and there was a chat and I loved chatting with other people from different backgrounds. And so we would just go late at night, just texting back and forth. And then I've met some people who are really great and they're just normal human beings. But then of course, when you are young, you meet other people. actually no matter what age you are, but you're gonna meet people who are older than you. And people were like, oh, you're mature for your age. Like, are you sure you're really like 13? And so I started speaking to people who are in their 30s or 40s or 50s, sometimes even 60s, they said.

Hmm

And I started developing these friendships. Yeah. And I'd be like, great. Like, this is it. I was an only child. I'm used to being around adults. I was just like, great. I would love to learn from your experiences. And they're like, great. And so that obviously I didn't know this is online predators or groomers. And so the conversation started to go on the wayside. And I wouldn't tell my parents because I didn't want them to take the phone from me. I had been begging for it for months, for a year. And so I just kept all my interactions private.

They would tell you how old they were.

And eventually I met some people that I actually really liked. So a couple of years later, I met someone who I really liked and we had been talking for months. And by this time I graduated from mobile games to computer games and I was doing voice chats in rooms where you're talking to other people, like forums and chat rooms and all that. And at that time I was like, you know what? want, like, let's meet up. And he said, yeah, let's meet up at a park near my house.

Yeah, yeah.

And we had planned that for months. And when it came time to go meet him, I was packing my bags, I was gonna go meet him and I'm very hard headed. So I knew that, you know what, if my parents have anything to say, I'm just gonna move in with him. He said he, can move in. He was like in his 40s and I was like 16. And I was just like, I'm just gonna do that. And I had this feeling in my stomach that maybe I should tell my mother just so that she knows where I am. I wasn't asking for permission. I was just like, I'm letting you know, I'm going to some guy's house, just letting you know. And so I told her like that.

Mmm, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just don't worry about it. Like all under control, all under control. I have like my provisional driver's license. We're good. And so obviously did not go over like that. And we had a long conversation and long story short, I thought that she was going to yell, scream, throw things, know, ask to know. Yeah, freak out. mean, like, why not? Why wouldn't she?

Just inform me, Mom. Don't worry. Don't worry about it. Yeah, it's no big deal. Just go back to what you're doing. I've got it handled. I'm an independent human right here. Yeah.

Yeah, freak out. Right? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But she did it and I was actually flabbergasted. I was like, what do you mean you're not going to react? And she told me years later, she didn't react because she thought she lost me completely. She knew that I was hard-headed. She was going through a divorce, this first person in her family to go through divorce. So she's going through a lot of shame and guilt and that. And she felt like she failed as a parent. And she felt like this is our last conversation. And in our last conversation, she wanted me to feel her love and to feel like, you know what?

Yeah.

what is the parting message I want to give to her? I want to give to her that I love her. I want to tell her that, I just want you to be careful. What did he say to you? Did he make you feel uncomfortable? Watch out for that. You don't want someone who makes you feel this way. And so as we were talking, she was being super reasonable. She felt like my friend. And so I started opening up to her about situations where he told me to do this or he told me he said this to me and I didn't feel comfortable with it. And she was like, well, no one should make you feel that way. And I was like, you know what? She's right.

Yeah! Wow. Man. Yeah.

And so I ended up not going to meet the guy because I was like, she actually has points. She really surprised me. And that situation was just a situation from my childhood. I grew up, I love technology. So I went on to go to university. I went working four years in cyber security awareness and threat intelligence. I loved cyber security, love technology. I made no connection between these two stories until I was working in corporate and they asked me to do lunch and learns for people. And in those lunch and learns, people told me they're like, you look super young. was 19 at the time.

Mmm.

They're like, you're super young, like, please talk about gaming. Like, what are you doing? You're like, let's talk about this. Let's talk about social media. Let's talk about predators. And I started to, and people thought, my God, your experiences and your advice is completely different than what we are seeing online. Can you speak more about it? And that's when I was lovingly forced into this industry. And that's why I create content to raise awareness and give a different perspective.

Yeah. Yeah.

Isn't that awesome? Yeah. I mean, it's so cool how our stories do that, right? Like the story that happened to you could have been a horrible ending, but instead the way your mom responded helped you kind of be receptive and open to then listening or perceiving it in a different way. And that led you to the career you have now. You know, I know I was sharing with you before we started recording that it just locally it's happening, you know, in our city, Florida, this 13 year old girl was talking to a guy who's 21 on Snapchat and

the cops just arrested them this morning because she left home to go be with him. And there's some other women's involved. They don't know what her deal is, but I think that's every parent's nightmare, you know, is that that will happen that their kid who they, think the wrestling match that parents go through is.

they have read and they've heard like, teenagers need to be independent. You kind of need to let them do their own thing. And so like when they're off in their room by themselves for hours, they're worried, but they're also kind of like, then when I say something to give them space. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't want to lose them because then they'll just be really mad and I'm being nosy. And so like, like what, man, like I think that's the real tension they have is like, well, then if I'm not doing, if I'm not giving them space, then I'm telling them to get off of it. And I'm telling them to like,

So I find that's the kind of tension is it's either I'm backing off and being a little laissez faire and saying, hey, I just want them to know they'll come to me. I trust if they need me, but I do get worried. But then the other one is like, I'm not going to trust that I'm just going to control it all. know? So is there a different way? Does it have to be those two? What's your advice?

I mean, I always say like, who has the most influence on kids? Their friends and the people that they look up to in terms of social media and influencers. And who has the most influence in our own lives? Our friends and the people that we care about besides our parents, people, there's other people where, your parents, your siblings, you know, your coworker, your boss, there's other people have influence in that way. But I mean, influence in like,

.

how you move really. And I say the same thing with kids. If you want the most influence in their life, as much as possible, figure out ways that you can connect beyond just the parent and child relationship. You know that you're the parent, they know that they're the kid. Or if you're a caretaker or whatever your role is, they know that. But creating that connection and that foundation beyond that is what gets you the most control.

We don't, you're not gonna be able to have as much control as you might want or don't want. But at the same time, if you want the most control in terms of their safety and their security, then you have to be that space where they feel open to tell you anything and everything. And I was reading a lot of your articles online and I'm like, yep, nail on the head, perfect, that's it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love that because it's really saying, of course, we're the parent, but the relationship, always goes back to building that relationship. And that's hard because we're busy and we have all this stuff going on and or we get scared. So that's where I think the clamping down comes in. But what that does is pushes them further away, doesn't build the relationship. So if your parent is like, I don't know anything about this stuff.

I don't know how to game. don't, mean, how do they kind of become a part of that? Cause they're like, okay, I'm, I'm open to that idea. How do I do it? What does that look like? I want to add to that. I love that question, Sara is I'm thinking a lot of parents to go, it's just too much. I don't even know where to start. It's like, I can't, they're already so far ahead of me. just annoys them when I ask or all this kind of stuff. And I love how your, your content is very much in line with ours that the most, most important way to keep them safe.

is to have that great connection, right? But I think a lot of people think it is to have all the knowledge. I gotta know everything about it. I gotta be up on that. So it's very intimidating. So for parents, you're like, I'm just not tech savvy. I'm just like, it's, where do you kind of guide them towards how to start that process?

Well, first, I would say you don't have to be tech savvy. You don't have to know more than your kids. You don't need to have the experience of gaming or being on social media and the way that your kids are. You just don't. You don't need it. What you need is your own stories, your own feelings, your own experiences and connecting with their experiences. So

Let's say you were never cyber bullied as a kid because that was just not a thing, but you were bullied somehow by your siblings, maybe your parents, maybe a cousin, maybe a neighbor, maybe someone in school. So you can relate in that way. Maybe you weren't playing Fortnite, maybe you weren't playing Roblox, but maybe you were playing a board game, right? Maybe you were playing whatever it was, or maybe you never played a game, right? Maybe you were playing outside with friends, that you were at the park. There's always some dynamic where at

Yeah.

At the end of the day, we're just speaking about human interactions and experiences. We have to take away technology, take away social media. Yes, there are some nuances with that. Believe that to people who can add the nuance. They don't need you to have nuance. They need you. They don't need a tech expert. They need their parent. They don't need a gaming expert. They need their mom or their dad or their uncle or aunt or however your relationship is with them. And so I would...

stay away from the feeling of like, I'm not enough in this aspect and figure out what are you enough in? You're enough in yourself, you're enough in your experiences, you're enough in your life. And they want that. They don't need you to be anything else.

Yeah. So what I'm, what I hope a lot of parents just took a big sigh of relief. So you're saying like, okay, okay. So what I heard Faridah say is in order to keep my kids safe, I don't have to be an expert on Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok. Yeah, all the games. I got to be constantly learning and before they play a game, I have to play every game. I'm just kind of like, you know, I think that pressure there is just, it's so overwhelming. Parents just say, I can't do this.

I can't do it. I'm just gonna hope for the best. Cross my fingers.

I say be an expert in what you're already an expert in and just go deeper in that. So you are the expert in yourself and the expert in your child. You may not feel like it because you're like, I'm still learning myself. I'm definitely still learning my child. They're always changing, right? But that's the point. Everything's always changing. Social media is always changing. But what do you have the most expertise in yourself? You know your experiences. You know what you went through. You know what the childhood trauma you're working through. If you're listening to this, you're aware of that. You know that you're working through whatever a moment.

Yeah.

emotional wounds that you had or childhood trauma. And so it's the same exact thing with your kids. I mean, you've raised them, right? So you're in the household with them. You may not know them the way that their friends know them, but you know them way more than their friends could ever know them. So you have a leg up when it comes to knowing what to do to protect your kids online. I always say every single parent, if you're listening to this episode, if you're on my page, if you care,

That means that you already are protecting your kids online. You just need to remember that and then figure out ways. And this is why I developed the safe methods, safe spaces, accountability, fun, and empathy. So just giving yourself a method, a blueprint, some way to start protecting your kids online with what you already know and then build on that. And when you're building on that, you're not building on that by knowing Snapchat more. You're building on it by knowing yourself and your kids more.

as it relates to the technology that your family uses and your goals.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love that. So it kind of starts with the relationship and it starts with who you are as a person already just showing up in your child's life, sharing your stories and going from there. Okay, so then as a parent, I think, okay, if I start there, there is a piece of me it goes, how do I figure out the practical steps? How do I figure out there are, it shouldn't be like, okay, I'll be in relationship and just let you have at it.

Yes.

Right? There are some guidelines. How do you figure that out? How do you navigate that?

That is like trusting your gut. So you know where the guidelines are based off of what you don't feel comfortable with. And then that's where you go deeper in. So say if your child has social media and you're not really feel, you don't feel comfortable with the content that they may see. So then that's the first thing you tackle. So you tackle what you're worried about first because the way that you approach your kids with the topic, your kids can feel your feelings, right? They can feel your anxiety. They can feel your fear. They can feel your worry and your sense of control.

So that's what you have to work on first. You don't wanna work on something that some random person said, my God, this was the biggest thing in our household, but it's not or in your household. But now you're worried that it could be were in your household because it happened to somebody else, but it hasn't happened to you. So now you're in a spiral. So it's like, okay. It's like, what are you talking? Right.

Yeah. Kids are watching that going, my gosh, like pull it together, mom and dad. Like you guys are constantly freaking out about the new scary thing.

And so, and you can be, you can speak to that. You can say, hey, look, right now I'm freaking out because I saw this news story and it's making me really anxious. And I feel this way because I don't want this to happen to you. You're more precious to me than whatever. And you can ask them like, what's the most precious thing in your life? Well, you're more precious than that 10,000 times more. And so I get worried. Let me know your experiences with it. Like, should I be worried? Are you worried about it as well? And I'm not saying that you're asking your kid, should I be worried if they say no, that you decide, I'm not gonna be worried about that.

Obviously that's not gonna happen, it's not realistic, but it's just giving them space to speak with you and go back and forth. And if you have techniques to calm down from anger, do that in front of your kids, because that teaches your kids how to do that when they're alone, even if it's super awkward. Even if you're like, you know what, I am really tired in this conversation, I need a moment, I'm gonna come back to it. That's teaching your child, wait a minute, if I'm tired and I'm overwhelmed, I can come back to a conversation. So whatever you do to...

regulate your immune system, regulate your emotions, then that's what you do. And show that to your kids so that they can learn from you.

you know, I'm thinking as you're saying that there was a person that I was helping who there was a lot of conflict between the parent and the teenager about how much they were on the phone. And so they had put some guidelines that were healthy, the guidelines were they wanted the phone put up every night by nine. But at nine, this this this person would go in and take a shower at like 855 and purposely delay that. So by the time they got out of the shower, they would see all these texts from the parents like bring the phone down now. it was all and when I talked to the parents,

come on.

You

the parents fears were legitimate, like that they felt like that their their kid might be on the phone chatting with people that might not be safe. They might stay up too late. But I had this most fascinating part. I've heard all that before from parents. But when I'm talking to the teenager, the teenager was about to graduate. And this teenager was telling me, I'm scared too.

Yeah.

Like I'm scared I'm gonna be on there and I'm gonna talk to the wrong person. I'm scared that I'm gonna go to college and be too addicted to this phone and I'll fail out of college. Like all of that scares me too. And their fear just makes me more scared. And so that's why I resist giving it to them because I feel like somehow I need to learn how to do this. I need to learn how to regulate.

Mmm.

have self-control when it comes to these things, you know? And so I thought that really plays out for not only phone usage and how much you're on these devices, but even what you're exploring on it. Like where is the self-control? How are we learning how to regulate? Cause a lot of that going through that is they don't know how to regulate boredom.

They don't know how to regulate their anxiety. They don't know how to regulate the sense that they're missing out the FOMO that's going on. And so that's why they explore in there. And even like in your case, this, this need to, want to be liked, I want to be, I want to find friends. of that's very interesting conversation. Yeah. All of that's good. You want all that it's part of natural development, but this idea of like, like you, talk a lot about this, of being aware of what's going on in you really like being conscious of that seemed like a weird conversation.

Mm-hmm.

and really listening. So I'd love that. Could you speak more about that? Because I thought that was a powerful piece of we can talk about the specifics about how to guard them from this or this on the Apple phone or the Google phone, whatever we're doing. But I think it starts with their self-awareness of what's going on in them.

And you may know more about this because this is your expertise, but there was like a study that showed there's like these students at school, they're acting up and they're always in detention and they put them through like behavioral therapy and it didn't, it worked a little bit for some students, but other students didn't really work. And then, I don't know, someone had the bright idea. I guess it was because of the study that let's actually put the parents in therapy. And then that changed almost everybody, all the kids.

Mm-hmm.

And I have, right. I'm like, I need to find this study. And that is what I say when it comes to online safety. I'm not saying that any problem that your child experiences is because of you. I mean, they are a person in themselves. They're going to meet somebody at school that could get them interested in something that you're like, what is this? What's going on?

love that yes no we need to get that paper research that's great yeah yeah

But at the same time, if you want to teach your kids how to operate in the digital world safely, you have to do it yourself. And I don't mean you have to operate in digital world safely yourself, just yourself. I'm operating within yourself safely all the time, no matter whether you're on the device or not. Because whatever you do to regulate your emotions, to heal your own childhood trauma, the therapy you're doing, whether you actually go into a therapist, you're reading books, you're journaling, you're thinking, you're walking, you're meditating, you're praying.

However you decide to do it, that will impact your child and what they do. So maybe it's not, you don't know the best passwords or how to protect an app or how to put parental controls, but you know how to regulate your own emotions. Maybe you don't know the newest online game, but you do know your childhood trauma and how it triggers you and you're working on figuring out ways to not lash out at your partner or your kids. That is gonna protect your child in the digital age.

Yeah. Yeah.

So a child, like this teen who said, hey, like I'm scared myself because I don't know how to regulate it, then they need a parent that's like, look, I'm scared. I don't know how to regulate it either. I'm going to do a bunch of research for myself knowing that it will impact you. And then that is how we're going to create change as a family.

Yeah, I love that. We're obviously that's that we love that it's so empowering as a parent to know, because we try to go fix our kids or do something to manage our kids control our kids. But really, the power comes from us doing our work. Yeah. And that's going to bring the thing you're trying to achieve happens when we address us. And I heard you say earlier about listening to that inner voice that your feelings.

And it starts with if I listen to my inner feelings, that gut check, that intuition, whatever you want to call it, that thing inside of me, and my kids see that I'm doing that, and then I honor that in them, then they learn to have that, to be in tune with that little system. Because so much of the world and society and the way we function kind of shuts down, ignore your feeling, ignore that, just do what you're told, or something like that. Instead, we want them actually tuned into that.

because that's protective. And when you said that earlier, I love that piece and I wanted to highlight that because it was, it's so true and it's so helpful. Yeah. Well, and I think most people don't connect that with cybersecurity. know, most people don't connect. And I think that's what you're wanting is like those little moments when you're not around, like there's going to be those moments where you can't.

Yeah.

possibly watch everything, you know, I like I mean, you're obviously very smart for Rita. And I know there's a lot of kids who they find it a great challenge. Like if you want to keep them from everything, there's the kids I see and do counseling with, they're like, bring it on, I'll show you that I can get around anything you do. And so really, if you really want to keep them safe, it is teaching them these things. And even like, you know, kind of tying in what you and Sara were saying is, you're kind of talking about the healthier I am.

Let's go.

the healthier relationship I have with myself, the healthier relationship I have with technology and my devices, meaning like I'm aware of maybe I'm on it way too much. Maybe I'm delving into and looking at things that aren't helpful to me either, right? The more I'm aware of that and what we talk a lot about Frida's co-creating with our kids, the more we have those kinds of conversations, then the kid comes back and says, hey, you know, the other day you said when you were on Instagram a lot, it started to feel kind of yucky. Well, I felt that too.

Yes.

And like, Oh, you did? Okay. And what did you do? That's what I wanted to get off of it or or somebody messaged me and it felt kind of weird. Do remember how you said the other day you got this email that was kind of odd, right? And so then we're able then to have those conversations, because they see like, I think that's what's beautiful about this day and age we're in. We're learning to we didn't grow up with this crap. So we don't know. We didn't know we don't know what it's like to be having it. So we kind of get to go, Yeah, this is new for us. I find us like maybe I'm on Tick Tock too much. Or maybe I'm like,

Yeah.

And when you have those conversations, it helps them see the goal here isn't to stop me from doing bad things. It's to learn how to be a healthy human who interacts with technology in healthy way.

And interesting, I love what you just said because you're experiencing the world for the first time and they are too. And that is how you can connect. They don't feel like they are and you don't feel like you are, which is also how you can connect. Because you're like, no, I'm not because I've been doing this for another 10, 15 years. And they're like, no, I don't know because I've been having this device since I was born. But at the same time, you're both in an opposite but also very similar position where you've

been on it long enough, but you also are very new to it. And you can connect with those experiences. You don't have to create like a false identity where, yeah, I grew up with a smartphone and you did it, right? You can just be like, yeah, mean, Google came out when I was like in college, when, you know, when I got my first job or when I was halfway through my career, you can, whatever it is, and you can be okay with that and stay true to those experiences. Cause we know from our own childhood and your teens know that when you're BSing, they know.

They're like, okay, you don't know what you're talking about, like clearly. And if you're very strong on a point in their stonewalling or just putting up barriers and not listening to you, most likely it's because there are many different reasons, of course, and you're therapists, so you all know. But the other reason is because they feel like you're BSing and you're trying to create a persona that's not actually there. And you're saying that you know more than you actually do. So if you're just honest about your experiences, it's just be like, look.

I know this because of my experiences. I don't know this because I haven't really experienced that. This is what I'm really worried about because this is what I've seen happen. A friend of mine growing up did this. I saw something on the news story and it made me worried. And I will love, and just have those discussions. And you can say, if a friend of yours, wink, wink, has an experience, like, you know, we can always talk about it. Friend.

Yeah. Yes. That's right. If that hypothetically happened to your friend, that's right. Yeah. I was wondering if you could get in there specific things. I know even our teenage daughter asked you asked us to ask you this. So there's some specific things that you think are safer than others, right? To help keep our kids safe from predators, but also safe from cyber bullying, all that kind of stuff. So there may not be clear cut lines here, but for instance, she said,

something that she has not wanted on her phone was a web browser. So she's not ever used the web browser, doesn't have one on there. So she's like, ask her if there's a safer web browser for her to use when she's researching stuff for school or that kind of filters out content that might be more harmful or is there any kind of web browser you know that's better than

Firefox is good for privacy so that any website you visit, it's not always tracking you through other websites you visit. it's not like, of course, you're still going to have some targeted ads because Firefox can't block everything. But there are some settings inside of Firefox that you can use. DuckDuckGo is another privacy browser. They have some, not necessarily parental controls, but they can act as parental controls and you can put them for yourself.

There's nothing that's 100 % is not going to filter out everything, but it'll least give you some way of having safety and security or some privacy as she browses the web if she needs to for any school projects.

Yeah.

Okay, what about specific social media? You know, like some parents will come and they'll talk about, okay, I'm okay. I'm telling I've done a lot of sessions like this. It's like, okay, which social media do you think is safer than others? And the parents be like, I'm okay if they have Instagram, but I do not want them to have tiktok or be real was one. I don't want them to have Snapchat because that stuff disappears. And so like, like, is there ones that you

Snapchat or TikTok. be real.

that you recommend that you think are more prone to be healthier and unhealthier or safer?

I mean, Instagram can disappear too. You can have disappearing messages. The sneaky way they can say like, just want Instagram disappearing messages. but I mean, it all the apps are the same because they're online. I just say that's one that's the foundation. Never think that one app is like, this is better. If it's if there are millions of people on it, it's the same. If there's only like 20,000 people and it's a small hometown app, then maybe it's a little bit different, but it's still the same.

no, they don't know that. don't think their parents...

honestly, genuinely, because there's a neighborhood predator somewhere. So I like that as a foundation so that we don't get too in the nitty gritty because I have parents do the same thing. They're like, I pulled my kids off Roblox. And I'm like, OK, what game are they playing in this some random mobile game? And I'm like, great. That's exactly where I was root. So I mean, it's like, yeah, that's that's awesome. Love it. So and I understand the intention and it makes complete sense. So, by the way, anyone listening to this, you pulled your kids off one and they're on another.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

You did the right thing. You followed your gut feeling. It's just that I want all of us to realize that look, it is just the online world. Now there are certain apps that have better guardrails and safety and control and privacy. typically, and most people don't want to hear this, but typically it's the bigger apps that have that resource, not because they're better, but because they have more money and they're under more scrutiny and their feet are to the fire and they have to answer to the people all the time.

And so it doesn't mean that the tools are perfect. It just means that they have more available because they're going to get into deep waters if they don't at least have the basics so they can just like cover behind like, at least we have this. Right. When it's the smaller apps, they don't have the money. They don't have the team. They don't have the resources. Typically there are apps that are smaller that do have that. get funding, they raise money. They are creating money where they're able to have that. But when it comes to social media, it's all the same. So.

If they want to communicate with their friends, then hopefully they have their phone number. You can lock down the text as much as you possibly can. You can have like an app that they can use, maybe like Signal, whatever it is, and you can add more privacy and security in that app. But to be honest, it's all the same. That's what I will say. Yeah.

Is there one phone that's jumping in Sara? got some. I see different things about like ages and stuff. Oh, not till they're 14, not till they're 16, not till they're 18. Do you have any thoughts on that?

I mean, it's not until your gut feeling says, okay, that's it. I mean, there's no magical age. Of course, 13 is the minimum age for all social media legally. 16 is typically better in terms of where they are in their development. Typically, it depends on your child. Again, you're the expert. You know what that means for your child. And that gives you a couple of years before they typically go off to college.

There's no magical age.

Yeah.

because you don't want them to, and I say this in a general, typical standpoint, again, if you're listening to this and not your family, disregard. Eat the meat, spit out the bones. But you want a couple of years before they go to college to help them manage it, because if they're in a kid at the candy shop in college, then it's just, you you don't really want that. But it depends on your family. It could work for your family, it could work for you and your child.

But I would say 16 is like typically the base age where it's okay. Most social media apps are going to be okay. They're gonna be a little bit better than if you're 13. But some kids, they shouldn't be on social media at all, like at all. And others, it's 13, others is 16, others is 18, really depends.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I love how you kind of point back to the parent. You know your child, there isn't some magical band, they turn 16 and now it's perfect. You really want that. What's your insight into your child? What can they handle? How can you set this up and structure it to be successful for them? Also with the idea of like, there a way this is kind of a training ground before adulthood? How can we use it that way?

I love all that. Yeah. Now I'm sure you have a similar answer to this, but every parent's going, what age do I give my kid a phone? You know, like, like it used to be sometimes they'd be like handing it to him at eight and then like, no, I'm not going to do that. And then like, I know Steve Jobs said 14 or something like that. You know, I hear a lot of parents will say that the kids in my office, but Steve Jobs and there's other people they created it. They don't do it till 14 because they know what dangers it is. But so like, what do you have suggested to parents is what age should they get a phone? And is there one phone that's

parents feel like are safer, have more ways that they can help safeguard.

Well, I'm in cybersecurity, that second answer would be a longer, I don't know, we don't have a lot of time, but the first answer, yes, it's similar, but it's different because typically kids and teens need phones more than they need social media. The social media is most for most people, about 99 % of kids is a want versus a need. And the only time you might need social media is, I don't know, maybe if your child is starting a business and you want it to be successful and the best way typically in this

this day and age is to be on social media, but you could do it locally and wait until they're older and then put it on social media. But yeah, typically social media don't need it. But a phone is completely different because you're thinking about safety, you're thinking about being able to communicate with your child, and that is a different ball game. So I wouldn't say the same answer for social media. It's the same foundation, but not the same answer. So I would say, pick a device that...

you know will work in terms of they're not going to lose it, it fits in your budget, they understand how to use it, you know how to use just a little bit, you just know how to set up the parental controls, you can type it on YouTube, how to add parental controls, and it fits in your family device structure. So you don't want to give your child an Android and you have an Apple. If you give an Android, it's better if the entire family has an Android if you have an Apple is better if they have an Apple, that type of thing. But

when it comes to safety, again, your gut feeling, you know, maybe it has to be eight, but maybe you give them a watch instead of the phone. Maybe it's a phone, but it's a lockdown phone. Some people like to do flip phones. It doesn't have as many controls again, cause it's a flip phone. So you're not gonna be able to do much, but you're gonna have to do something. You know, might not have a lot of control over it though. And I don't typically right now recommend any company's lockdown phone. I know there's a lot of companies that have like a phone, the kids phone, whatever. And I'm still in...

conversation with some companies that I think are moving in the right direction. And I have a cybersecurity partner. They have a research team that will look into the phone to make sure it's secure. The reason why I say this is because it's come out in many research studies, people can Google this, that many of the phones in wearable tech for kids, their technology was able to be hacked into by predators and hackers. And they were able to track the kids and where they went. They were able to message the kid as if they were their parent.

Yeah.

to say, let's meet at this park. Like, hey, so-and-so is not picking you up or I'm not picking you up. Someone else is picking you up. They're going to be in this car. Ends up being somebody else. So I believe Switzerland and some other European countries, they banned the wearable tech devices for kids for most of the companies because of that, because it was beginning too dangerous. And this is because a lot of companies don't, again, have the resources to add security and safety to the devices. Things like Apple and Samsung and these big companies, they have the

billions, trillions of dollars to figure out how to put security and privacy. So that's why I'm hesitant to recommend kids smartphones. But once we pass the research stage, I have a meeting set up with companies these this month and onwards to figure out research stages. Then I can come out and say, hey, I can can endorse this company. They went through security checks for the next six months. It seems like it's good. We'll do another test in six months. Yeah. Stay tuned. Stay tuned.

Sure. Yes.

Yeah, good. Stay tuned. Follow you on Instagram to find that out. Well, and then one more I had about technology was about chat rooms and video games. I think what I've heard you say, and I'd love for you to elaborate on this is it's good for parents to not have those open chats, but have chat rooms where they're talking to friends that, you all that kind of stuff. Can you talk about that? Cause I think that's a real concern. A lot of parents are like,

Right? Yeah.

that's I mean, that's is a hard thing we never grew up with where if we wanted to chat with somebody, we just went down the street and talked to us like to get on the like you had to like get your brother off the phone to be able to use the phone like get off. I'm trying to call my friend. Yeah. But now it's like, Hey, mom, I'm just gonna go play a video game and talk with my friends. And and you see so much positive come from that they're like, some of them are no longer lonely because they have these friends. But then the fear is like, who are they chatting to? And who is this? And what guidelines do I put there? So what's some advice you have?

Right.

I mean, when it comes to gaming or especially gaming, I'll just go with the gaming is better to keep it in a public place so that if they are talking to someone, they're less likely to be talking to someone that is, you know, other other for other reasons because they're in public. That's better. If you have the phones at night at nine p.m., then that's also another way to go about it. When it comes to chat rooms on social media, that's a little more personal. It's not necessarily going to be on TV or PS4 or Xbox. It's going to be in their personal phone.

Yeah.

So that becomes a little bit more challenging. And that's when you start having those conversations about red flags of groomers and predators. You don't say that don't talk to strangers, especially when talking to teens. And that's a post that I just made today. You have to be a little bit more nuanced than that. You have to give them an understanding of what it feels like to speak to somebody who is making them feel uncomfortable. Because if we say predator, well, they're not a predator. They're Johnny's cousin's sister's brother. And you're like, I mean, I don't know.

So in it, you want to give them an understanding of what they may say and then what it feels like and then tell them, hey, I went through a situation where someone made me feel this way and I know how it feels and it really sucks. Sometimes you don't want to talk to anyone about it. And here's what you can do in the moment if something happens and you can play out scenarios and then you can say, if you feel comfortable, I will love if you talk to me about it because we can and you don't have to say like, I'm not going to go through your texts. I'm not going to delete things for you unless you really want me to. I will be there by your side.

Yeah.

but I would love to help you go through that situation in a way that's healthy for you. And that's the way that I would approach it.

Do you think it's helpful for parents to have a policy where they're checking the phone nightly or weekly and going through that and obviously with the kids permission, like in the sense of it's an agreement to that, hey, the phone, there's an open door thing where we can look at that. Do you think that's smart to do? Is that advisable?

Yeah, of course. If that works for your family, if your teen is in on it and they agree to it, if they don't agree to it, that's a whole other thing. Doesn't mean you don't do it. It just means you have to change your approach to it. But yes, let them know that, yeah, this is my phone. I paid for the phone. It's not your phone yet. And I can look through the text messages and they're clear on that. Yes, of course, the way that you approach it is going to be completely different. You have to have a method that you use if you see something and how you're going to talk about it.

how you're going to resolve the issue. But yeah, I don't think that's a bad thing. that matches, some parents are like, my God, hearing that is like, my God, that is too much. I have too much going on. have no time for that. I can't do it. And if that's case, and depending on your belief systems, I've had parents, and actually this was my mother growing up. She was like, God will tell me, like he'll tell me in a dream. Like I will have a feeling. I'll find out.

you I'll find out I'll find out. Yeah, I'm even thinking like some parents what they do is they'll do that thing where they'll look through it, but they don't tell the kid they've been doing it. So then they'll come see me and they have all this information about all these things the kids doing and the kid has no idea the parent has all this information. And I'd be like, why don't you just tell them you're doing this? Like, well, then because if I tell them then they'll delete it all and I'll never know anything about that. So I think that brings up a whole like this whole thing of like,

I know how sneaky they are and they know how to delete everything. And I know you even talk about that, how you were able to delete it all. So your mom didn't know about it, right? And so it is like, there is that risk of if I'm open about it and we're, we're, talking about it, that I'm going to do this. may be high.

yeah.

Yes, I mean, that's the reason why I want parents to be careful when they do that, because you don't want your kid to mistrust you. one of the reasons why I connected to predators was because I felt more safe with a predator than I did my parents. And not because they loved me, because they didn't judge me. It was open, it was on this. did something, I made a mistake. It didn't matter. And the only reason why I opened up to my mother and told her the situation that I was in, in terms of after I said, yeah, I'm leaving, I don't care what you do.

Yeah, yeah.

say halfway through the conversation, I was like, wait a minute, she's being open. She's being not judgmental. I wasn't thinking of it logically, but just, I just felt safe. And so I spilled everything to her and then tell her something. Cause I knew that that was going take her over the edge. in that she was already gone. But yeah, you, you had to be super careful when you're looking through your child's phone. You, if you want to bring up something that you saw, the best thing is to never tell them that you saw it. If, if it's going to impact their

their safety right now. Let's just say like something's happening and your kid may be taken away from you. Oh, you do whatever you need to do. Like I am not, you know what to do. But if a situation where things are just filling up, that's not a great interaction. I don't really like that. Oh, you're giving information to someone that you shouldn't. Then that's when you start becoming super open, super vulnerable about your experiences, your feelings, your wants, your needs. And then you relate it back to them like, Hey, have you ever experienced that? And even if they say no, and you're like, Okay, I know you're lying.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

you can give them something to get out of that situation. If that will go over well, then tell your kids you saw something. But again, if your gut feeling is like, no, I need to tell them that I saw it. We need to have a straight up conversation about this. I can't be around the bush. Then you do what's best for your family and then figure out a way to repair that mistrust because mistrust is going to happen and figure out a way that you can tell them like, this is, I didn't want to tell you this. I accidentally saw it. It made my heart sink.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can't imagine if my parents saw something that I did, I'm pretty sure that you're really pissed off at me and upset right now. And I'm so sorry that's happening. I would absolutely be pissed off and upset. Like, let me know if you have any feelings about this. Let me know right now. I don't want you to feel like you have to hold it in. I never want you to feel that way. So let me know how you feel. And they can be cussing and being upset and mad or whatever. But if you just hold space for that and you just let them like you're a therapist in the moment and they're just crying and having their emotions.

And you can say like, I get it, I understand. Like, you know, my parent did that. That's repairing in that situation. So basically whatever route you take, figure out a way to repair it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I have two more. I want to know. I want to know life 360. What do you think about that? Is that so many people feel this sense of like safety like I have life 360. I know where my kid is at all time and I hear kids like I just left my phone somewhere to so they think I was there and I'm not really there. So just tell me about for parents are using life 360 and they're using it to track their kids or all. What's your thoughts about that? Is it make him safer?

Hahaha

It's so funny you mentioned that because again, cybersecurity. So Life360 has been under a lot of fire for their lack of security and privacy practices. So I hesitate to recommend them. They did change a couple of things, but not enough. And I haven't gotten any confirmation that they did everything they needed to do. So I don't typically recommend Life360. If you're using it and you love it and it's great for your family and the greater good is that you keep it, then keep it.

I'm not just because there's one bad security thing or there's a bug in the app and a hacker could hack into it that you should never use it. And but the greater good is that you're keeping your kids safe. I'm never going to say that. I'm just raising awareness. You can have an informed decision on whether or not you want to continue using Life360. And hopefully they get it together. But Life360 is not the only app. The same thing that with the wearable tech in the phones. I have an entire list of unsafe apps and safer apps. The quick of it, because we don't have a lot of time.

great.

is just stick to the bigger companies that have like Google, Samsung. Norton has really good parental controls. And then the parental controls that are already available on your child's devices or apps they use. That's the best case scenario. There are certain companies that are doing a little bit better. Like I've seen Bark do a better job than most companies in terms of security and safety. And I haven't done our full tests on Bark, but I look forward to getting more of that. But they seem to be taking security.

great. OK.

Seriously, I haven't seen any other parental control company do that.

Okay, and then the last one I promise is parenting apps that you recommend. So I know you've talked about things like common sense media could be a great source for some, but yeah, well, what's some parenting apps you say if they want to be more informed on the games their kids are playing, the devices, what's some places to go to for that?

Huge source.

I'm commons media. That's I mean, there's others I can go. There's a lot of other resources, but commons media, because if your child hasn't, they're begging for an app, they're begging for a game, they're begging for device, you don't know anything about it, even a movie, a TV show, whatever an influencer, you can look in commons media and see if it's safer. You have parent reviews, expert reviews and kids reviews. And it sounds like I'm promoting them all the time because I am because they're great. They don't pay me. But I have worked with their other company called sensical and sensical has an app.

great. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

that has appropriate age, age appropriate expert back videos for your kids. So it was like YouTube videos and actually TikTok videos too. So they're handpicked by experts.

Okay.

you

Thank you.

everywhere. Oh yeah.

when they go there, I know we didn't even get to talk about cyber bullying as much, which sucks, but maybe we'll just have to have her on again to do that conversation if she's open to it. Cause I would like to do a whole one just on that, right? But I would love for them to go find you. So where are all the places they can get your info and kind of what's the stuff you're doing to help educate parents.

Yes.

Yes, let's do it.

Absolutely. So cyberfrida.com is my website. And then I'm at cyberfrida on Instagram and on YouTube is my two main platforms. I'm everywhere, but YouTube and Instagram are your best bets. YouTube has deep dive videos on protecting your kids on Roblox, Minecraft, on Snapchat, Discord, all of the things. I've been on Discord since 2015 since it launched. So it's a very in-depth video. It's like not playing around.

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

And Instagram is where I updated almost daily, multiple times a week. And sometimes I take a break, you'll never know because I just quietly take a break and come back. But I'm always posting videos there. I go live there. And then I have my Protect Kids Online memberships, which is going to be all focused. It used to just be Protecting Kids Online, but based off of my story, it's only going to be focused on protecting kids from predators and cyberbullies. So if that is your biggest issue, then that's once it opens up back again.

That's all I have.

That's great. Yeah, wonderful. We got a lot to watch. you so much, Frida, for the work you do, because obviously this situation isn't going away. And we all are passionate, us included, about raising kids who are going to be healthy digital citizens who know how to go into this world and use it for more good rather than just...

all the disgusting stuff that can be used for as well. But there is so much good that can come from it. And so hopefully with the education of being safe, there's less fear about it and therefore they can be more able to use it to influence things in a positive way. So thank you so much for sharing all that info. We're really happy to have you on and we know our guests are gonna be so informed. So thank you very much. Yeah, thank you.

Absolutely. Thank you.

Appreciate you.