Episode 143

How often in your parenting are you getting caught on looking at the behavior of your kids and trying desperately to do whatever it takes to change it? You're using all types of rewards and punishments and different techniques to go, how do we change this behavior? Well, maybe we're looking at the wrong thing.

Maybe we need to be looking underneath the behavior and see what's driving it. What really is the motivation behind it? What's causing all that behavior to happen? And maybe that's the answer to actually teaching your kids to behave better and different. And I know all of us want that in 2025. We want to raise kids who behave well, who are respectful, who are kind, who listen.

but many times the answer is underneath the behavior. And that's the only way we're going to find answers to helping them. So jump in today as we hit our second core concept for the year 2025, where we're equipping all the parents that listen to the art of raising humans podcast with these new concepts, this new paradigm on how to parent without fear, without shame, moving away from techniques where you're trying to intimidate and scare you, scare the kids into obeying and doing what you want. But instead,

helping raise self-control kids who actually like want.

to do the behavior instead of just do it out of fear. So if you haven't already, definitely take a moment to comment, to rate the podcast. We love that. And if you need help in 2025, reach out to us at Kyle at artofraisinghumans.com. And you're saying, man, I would love to get some personal coaching on how me and my spouse or whatever other caregiver I'd love for Sara and Kyle to be able to help us change these family dynamics. Reach out to us and we'd love to connect with you and see if we're a good fit. So I hope you enjoy the podcast today.

 

and welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I am Kyle. Hi there, I'm Sara. And Sara, I'm really excited. This is our second podcast about...

these Core Four concepts. Core Four. The Core Four. If you've got a better name, feel free to... Yeah, we're still playing around with Core Yeah, feel free to comment, text it to us, whatever. the tongue well. Yes, send it to Kyle at artofrazinghumans.com if you've got a better name for it. But we came up with these Core Four concepts that if you didn't hear last week's podcast, go back and listen to it, because that was the first kind of foundational step that helped change our parenting.

and better understand how we wanted to raise our kids. four were the things that just really shifted things for us and the things that are foundational to all the rest of things. And helped us let go of the old school parenting techniques that our own parents passed on to us, right? And to have a better understanding of what does it look like to have this new way of doing it. No different in some ways, Sara. I'd say even like old ways that marriage had been done and now new concepts about, man,

Listening to each other and communicating and actually resolving stuff instead of lots of times when we were growing up in certain homes It was like just this this person played this role and that person played that role and there wasn't this like Look at the last 50 years of nutrition and you know low fat high fat sugar freeze, you know all that all that stuff Exercise how you should you know weight train all that is shifted. So is this what what I

liked is it created also, I would say a filter, because there were some things our parents did that we love, that we take with us and we intentionally bring into our children's lives. But it created this filter to go,

 

okay this little piece here that they did yeah we were gonna go ahead and leave that one behind because we've learned some new things you know same way with diet and actually all the other things you know you're like we've learned so we're gonna keep doing this but we're gonna let go of that yeah and so it created that for us something we could lean back on because then when something enters the picture yeah even if it's a new behavior our kid is doing we can go okay now wait here let's run this through the filter how what do we want to do as parents well even i love that idea of a filter because even that helps

us in the resources we're reading for reading a book or learning something on social media and finding some new you know person teaching something it'd be like how does it filter through and stay true to this new path that we're taking you know because sometimes we would lean towards something because it's the path that we just knew you know we're like wait we know we're wanting to do this differently but there's so much information right and that's actually what we're trying to do for the listeners just try to filter it down to where you know even like Sara all the resources that I typically

give to parents when I'm coaching them. They're all books and websites or blogs or podcasts that all go in line.

with the same filter, know, the same kind of approach. just so much out there and we spend time, that's what we're doing all the time, we're constantly reading and looking at stuff and going to trainings and that's our background, our education and so yeah, when you filter through all that, you're like, okay, we've gotta narrow this down to what we've seen successful in our own journey as parents with our children but then it started way before we had kids with all the kids we worked with. So last week's podcast, we discussed the

We discussed Dr. Siegel's work on interpersonal neurobiology and understanding the brain state. So the second concept that we thought needed to go and that's the second step, the second foundational thing to understand is emotion-based parenting versus behavior-based.

And this was something when I was learning from Dr. Laura Markham, she really brought to light this idea and this really helped me better understand the path we were trying to form and take. Okay? Is in the past, almost all parenting techniques came from a place of behavior-based approaches. What does that mean?

That means you look at what we'll say child, but honestly, mean, there's all kinds of psychologists and stuff who studied all this with dogs and everything else. But it's the idea that you behave, somebody does a certain thing, and then I am wanting to modify that behavior or.

I want to create a behavior or stop a behavior. So it's very focused on just what somebody is doing. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean that's turn. So a lot of that comes from the psychology of behaviorism. Yeah. Right. And so I'm sure everybody's listening to this has heard of something like operating conditioning where you have the dog that you ring the bell. Yeah. And like you ring the bell and the dog begins to salivate because they think they're about to eat. OK. So they learned cool we could train dogs this way and still today even a lot of

how you do dog training is behaviorism, you know? Or even you could get the mice to do this or that if you they got shocked when they went that direction and then they could go get the cheese. do it with ourselves and it's not that we're saying like it's all wrong, right?

So we'll get around to what we are saying, but it is true, right? We do have behaviors and we can modify those behaviors. We can do things to encourage them or discourage them. Well, so some ways you might even use behaviorism in counseling as a counselor is if you have somebody who's feeling depressed a lot, you might tell them to physiologically move their body, get out of bed, smile more.

 

Right? Say positive things. in the sunshine, go for a walk. Yes. And all these things are proven to work. That is a part of behaviorism. As you start to do these things, your body will start to shift. Right? So there are a lot of positives that have come throughout the years through this type of science. And in parenting, it's, my child is doing this and I don't want them to do that behavior. So I'm going to do this deterrent. Right? Or I do want them to do this other thing. So I'm going to give them a sticker. it's

You can see it. So when teachers are doing behavior charts or they're doing reward systems or you know that the kid gets spanked for doing whatever behavior it is or they get consequences or timeout or whatever that is all of those techniques fall into behavior based approaches. So the idea is I'm seeing a behavior I don't like and I want to change it. And so I'm going to do this thing to you or take something from you. So then that way then you will

Think differently about doing that behavior and we're well intentioned right school teachers and things You know you read a book you get a sticker right so so it's well intentioned or we want to find ways to encourage things that help all of us and children Be successful so it's but it leans all the way that direction so we're not saying behavior-based is bad Right right behavior-based is pretty much all our parents knew you know I mean like conscious that was in the time

was for a long time. There's so many, the military, school systems, businesses, you get your paycheck, you get a raise. It's all, we live in a world that's very focused on behavior-based approaches. Well, because it's the easiest to see. Yeah.

Right? So mean, I can see it with my eyes and I go, I don't like that behavior. I want it to change. So, you know, even our kids grew up playing sports and there was times where the team was not listening and the coach would tell them to run, right? Like that's a behavior based approach. So when we're watching it, we're like, okay, that may help. I don't, I don't know. I mean, I think all of us, when we see that we're kind of like, maybe that will change things, but then you'll see the kids will come back and they'll still be talking and you're like, then the coach will make them run again. And so you, you'll see people try to do this in a

 

to try to shift the behavior but there is something I think in all of us that go I think there's more to it than that like that's yeah that's out of control yeah it's limitations right yeah I said this sticker chart work yes yeah I mean I did a sticker chart for that and that worked and

this Sunday when I tell my child, I'll give you a you I don't know, sometimes they're paid for grades, you know, that worked for a while. And they're like, why isn't that working anymore? And I think that's that's the thing. As we study this, and as we go forward, we're thinking, wait a second, there seems to be limitations on this approach. There must be more going on. Right? Well, what's some of the deficits of doing a behavior based approach, Sara? What's some things that are negative outcomes of it? Because lots of times we use it, I think everybody use it because they one they

for yourself, you'll use it to motivate yourself. One, was what was done to them. So think a lot of people, including ourselves at time, used it because it's the only thing we knew. But what are some of the deficits of using that approach? Well, a really big one is that it is external motivation. And so it's somebody else's, you know, coming along with an agenda for you. I mean, in regards to parenting, we might use it for ourselves like, hey, if I, you know, do this thing, I'll go shopping and buy myself a new shirt. But with regards to

kids, it's here's my goal for you and I'm gonna manage your behavior based on my goals for you and I'm manage your behavior with these know carrots that I'm out. it's all external. It's not really an approach from inside. It's not an approach from the child is choosing this and and wanting to go forward.

So when you always have external that weekends over time and that weekends depending on the goal, because if you have very, very different goals, you'll see it doesn't seem to matter what carrot you're hanging out there. It's not working. Well, if you've ever had a kid on a behavior chart, I I saw that all the time, Sara, as a school counselor. Every time a teacher did that or a school counselor was, you know, or somebody was going to implement it, I think this is only going to last two weeks max. Like at the most. They're excited for that sticker. Exactly. Or excited to get to go spend time with that animal, that little, the school family.

 

animal and then but then they're done and then they'll go back to it because nothing has been taught or I'm thinking of if anyone has had a kid in sports and they've had to you go do run because they're being too talkative really what the coach is wanting is he's wanting he or she's wanting the kids to listen and to really care about what he or she is saying right but really what that does is the kid just doesn't want to run so the kid is like getting mad at each other guys stop talking there's you know they're actually not listening

better to the coach. They're just learning to act like they're listening better to the coach because they're afraid of running or like you said the kid who gets paid for grades is that is a behavioristic approach and you could see good outcomes. The kid might get A's because they want to get paid or they you whatever other care you're putting out there but then the kid gets no credit.

for really doing the work. The kid, when I've talked to them personally in sessions, they tell me they're getting good grades so they can get the money instead of getting good grades because that's what they want. Yeah. It loses that whole internal, I'm going to share because I care about this person and I want to share versus I'm going to share because I'm going to get put in timeout if I don't share. Yeah. Or I want to hit my brother, but I'm not going to because mom or dad are going to spank me if I do. of hitting my brother, I want to just tell them how I'm feeling.

moment and resolve the conflict in a healthy way. I want to work hard because of this outcome I'm going for not because even because I'm going to get something or I'm going to avoid something.

You you want things to come from this inside kind of character development versus I'm only good because I'm made to be good. Exactly. I'm only good because I'm afraid what's going to happen if I do something bad. Yeah. Right. And you see kids check out from that where some kids, yeah, they'll buy in. like, well, yeah, I'm going to do this so I can get my screen time. I'm going to do this so I can get, you know, but you have the other kids who are just like, forget it. don't take my phone. I don't care. You know, and you see this numbing happen and it's

 

losing its power and that and so kids go one direction or the other and either direction just you're not seeing the child choosing their life and their choices based on character development. So I want all the listeners to take a moment and just kind of chew on that for a minute this idea of behavior-based approaches are outward in approaches so you're basically seeing a behavior you don't want and you're either

you know, using a carrot or a stick, or you're taking something or threatening something to then motivate the kid to change the behavior.

You know, just think about what you're currently using. I'm even thinking, Sara, about how many times we get comments on social media about how if you just did that to the kid, you just did this to the kid. Like as a school counselor and working with family, I've seen so many things done to kids and it doesn't like the kid may change for a little bit, but then you need to keep doing that because the kid is not.

Learning a better way the kid is just learning to not do that behavior and if you really love it You know, I was diving into all this research. They've there's so much out there. It's really amazing but When they study kids who then will repeat a behavior if someone has chosen that for them there a lot and there's a carrot or a stick It's less likely the child will ever repeat that behavior on their own They will need the carrot or the stick to repeat that behavior

if it's been chosen for them. If you look at the prison systems or juvenile systems or those kids, they've had the stick. So it's not for lack of stick. It's not for lack of punishment. So if you study, if you look into that, just dive into it, it's all over the place, you'll see that it's not for the lack of it, that these behaviors where they committed crimes or.

 

you poor behaviors were chosen. It wasn't for lack of those things. So when you look at it, you go like, well, okay, that's not working. So then what? Yeah, what's the other path? So that's where then if we're moving away from behavior based, then what is the other option? And that would be emotion based. So what does emotion based look like? What does it mean? And that's just flipping that whole thing. It's going, what's going on in the inside? Yeah. And that's, yes. that the behavior is actually just a symptom of something happening internally.

Yeah, yeah, just just like an illness or yeah Well when you say that that first thought I had Sara was I remember being a young kid Maybe I was like in middle school, maybe seventh grade and I was sick. I was in a lot of pain I felt like my I think I'd strip throat or something like that and remember my dad asking me a question and I was kind of I was kind of annoyed at the question because I didn't feel good so I snapped back at him and he immediately said don't talk to me that way son you will not I don't care how you're feeling it didn't and I was just like what is happening here like I'm really in pain and I think most of

of us, if somebody was in pain and they snapped at us, the last thing we'd be thinking is like, did they say that in a respectful tone or did they, we think, they must be a lot of pain. And we'd be compassionate and curious as to how we could help with that pain, but leaving the behavior would change if they didn't feel so much pain.

It's the whole root cause. Yes. Right. So we see behaviors as a cry for help. We see behaviors as just a symptom, an indicator that flashing light in your car. It's an alert that something deeper is going on in your car. I don't want to remove the light. Well, great. Now the light isn't flashing anymore. Or put tape on top of the light and go, I don't want to see that light anymore. Yeah.

I'm going to punish the car for having a flashing light. This is ridiculous, but hey car, if you won't flash that light, I'll give you a synthetic oil change. So it's sort of that idea of if the behavior is the flashing light, if my child's doing something, I need to look at

 

what is going on behind the flashing light? The behavior is the flashing light, so what else is happening? I need to be curious. If I want to fix the flashing light, if I want to fix the behavior, then I need to go deeper than just the behavior. I think the reason why that can be really scary though for a lot of people, especially in today's culture, Sara, is with social media, puts us out there a lot, but this idea of, now we're moving away from, we're only gonna care about feelings. I know, yes. So talk to me about that.

What's the danger that people feel like when you go more emotion-based? Yeah. Well, I think sometimes in our efforts to pay attention to emotions, we sort of just stop there, you know, and we think, what are you feeling? you hit your brother. You're mad. you're mad. And we just stay there and we don't do anything else. And so we're talking about there's teaching, no, no correction, no discipleship. stay in this big emotional mess. And that's where everyone just lives. And we excuse.

every behavior, we don't correct anything, we don't guide anything, we don't get anywhere else but just stuck in that big emotion. is people are tired of, okay it's great, we want to be, okay, I think most people listening are like, okay yeah, I think being more aware of what's happening inside, we get that, we all think that's important, it's not, we're no longer can just be ignorant and say it's just the external, we know there's internal stuff, we know more and more we're aware of the brain science, the physiological stuff going on.

but I think a lot of people then feel like, well, that's gone too far. The pendulum swung so far that then feelings are dictating everything. So if somebody, I mean, I remember this happened even in our master's degree when we were getting our master's, we might be having a tough discussion in class and somebody would say they feel uncomfortable. And so then the professor might say, okay, let's stop this discussion. And as opposed to we had this other professor who was awesome and he felt like it was our job as counselors to have those tough discussions.

He was a real breath of fresh air where somebody did say they felt uncomfortable. He I'm sorry You feel that way, but I want us to have this discussion, It was more about okay. Now. What can we do? Yeah, we don't throw out the fact that you're not Don't ignore it act like it's not there. It's very important bring that to the table, but that's not what we stop Mm-hmm. You know, it's well, let's do something with this. Yeah, so I hope the listeners hear that we're not about saying Okay, when you become emotion-based then now that's all you focus on

 

just the feeling. It's all about just listening to the feeling, just hearing the feeling, and then you're done. We're not about the feeling ever getting in the driver's seat and driving the car. Really emotion-based parenting is more about helping the kid be aware that the emotion's driving the car and then knowing how to move the feeling over into the passenger seat so you can take over the car again.

And then just be curious about what the feeling is there, right? With the behavior based, was more like, let's act like the feeling's not there, or let's just kick the feeling out about how you behave, and we don't care how you feel. Yeah, we're not even curious about that. And so there is no discussion at all about the feeling or any awareness about it. So then the feeling is actually driving you a lot of times, and you don't even know where you're going or what's happening. Whereas in emotion based, we're going to be very honest. That right now, the feeling is the thing that's driving you. But the feeling isn't going to bother

you around. It isn't gonna dictate all of your choices. We really want you to get to a space where you're listening to the feeling, curious about it, connecting and understanding it, but then you're making choices. You know, then you're learning and growing. The feeling is there to inform us so we don't want to not listen to that voice. It's very important. Anger, sat, whatever it might be.

We want to build the skill of being able to go, wait, wait, I'm aware of a feeling. What is it trying to tell me? Because it'd be telling me all kinds of different things. And I'm going to go address those things. I'm going to pay attention to that so that I'm not stuck here for the rest of my life. And that's where we're teaching our kids. You can feel big and angry or jealous or whatever it might be, fill in the blank. And now...

We're gonna decide what we're gonna do with that so that you can be free You know, you can let that emotion come and go like it should and you are gonna make decisions and not be trapped in that And once again Sara, I know listeners hear me do this a lot But I want to bring it back to relationships to friendships to marriage to those kind of adult relationships Yeah that most often we don't do behavior-based approaches with those relationships because we see it doesn't work Right, like if we get really mad at our spouse and try to change their

 

by using a carrot or stick, we can see that that's not gonna bring long lasting change, okay? So most of the time, what's going on when couples are having conflict and they end up going to marriage counseling is teaching them actually how to do this, is actually how to be more aware of the emotion in the spouse, the feeling, accepting it, validating it, and listening to it. And then the belief is when you do that, you actually connect as a couple and then that conflict actually brings more intimacy instead of pushing you further away. When we just focus on the behavior,

We get two people who are just living isolated lives from each other Okay, and what we want we want kids to grow up into adults who have friendships and marriages Where they look past the surface. They're more aware of what's going on internally

And realizing, guess, Sara, as I'm talking about this too, I'm thinking even of like modern medicine, how most of us do get frustrated with modern medicine where they just want to see the symptom and just give you some kind of medicine to somehow make that symptom go away. But inside we're like, what? don't think this actually changed anything. Yeah. Something else is going on. Yeah. Like that painkiller just made me not feel the pain anymore, but I'm still in pain. There's still something. Shouldn't we figure out why that's hurting? Right. love the doctors that do that. Right.

who are more like aware that there's something underneath here, right? And you see that in the business world too. The business world's been, there's been a shift. If you're in that world, I know you know what I'm talking about, but it used to be much more, and there's still plenty of practices that do this, but it used to be, okay, work for your paycheck. know, you're not doing a good job here, so then we're gonna dock you or we're gonna, there's gonna be a punishment. But so business practices are shifting to how do we build our team?

what's going on behind the scenes and how do we develop people and it's not just- do we care about our employees? And even like some of really big ones that are doing really well have like coaches on staff to help you pursue your career life goals and dreams because they realize you're not just a robot. You're not just somebody to just come in and perform for them.

 

but you actually are a multifaceted human being and there's more. And you're the better employee when they do that. Even the places where they're having break rooms and now they're developing all these things instead of just this little table you sat at and had your. Well, I think we've all worked for those people who just saw you as a warm body to take up space. And then hopefully all of you have had some bosses who saw past that and thought you were more than that and you felt valued for who you were, not just for how you behaved. And if something wasn't going well, they're calling you into the office to go, hey, what's going on here?

You know, let's problem solve this and stuff. It wasn't just to slap you on the wrist and send you back out there and tell you to do it. Yeah, reprimand you, write you up. Yeah. Yeah, it was deeper and it was a bigger conversation. They're assuming something else is going on. They're going to the inside, not just the external thing even on that, I'm thinking as you're saying that how many people, you're going through something, there's issues in your life. Maybe, you you've got family members who are sick and your performance hurts. It's not as good, right? Because you're going through things. And so you'd like a boss to be curious and say, what's going on?

How could you see that this isn't like pampering you and saying like hey, we're gonna hold your hand It's saying we're with you. You're not alone in this we're gonna help you and that's all emotion-based is so you can be successful Not to say that's fine. That's fine. You just sit there. Don't bother, you

It is to help you be. the behavior based technique, Sara, what would fall in any there is things like spanking is timeouts is grounding is bribing is love and logic. Those kinds of things are more

behavior based, they're all external trying to change external behavior. Whereas emotion based, the techniques that we would see there would more be like, man, creating a space in your house. That's like a calm down space, right? A place that might be a space where we're upset that we're going to be able to come back and

 

you know, regulate our bodies, right? It might be techniques like, hey, if I'm upset, I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to go or it might be lots of parents will do something like kids all rambunctious, go jump on the trampoline for a bit and kind of work all that energy out. it's building the insight in the child to go, why am I doing this? What is happening inside of me? And guys, it's hard. I think it's harder. It's harder. takes more time. Yeah, to stop and go, what's happening inside me? Why am I acting this way? And then building that skill in a child to go, wait, what's going on?

on why did I do that and then create a path forward. Yeah. You know, and that that's that's work. That's effort. Well, Sara, I think it's harder and we'll get into this as we get further into another one of our foundational steps. But because I think doing it to ourselves is hard. think lots of us because we grew up in homes where it was more behavior based, we speak to ourselves that way. We feel like if we're not behaving the way then we yell at ourselves, we we shame ourselves, we lecture ourselves, we ground ourselves, we punish ourselves. And instead of actually being curious and saying like, what's

going on in me, right? And that's why I love that connection to the medical field is that's really what a lot of people are frustrated with when it comes to just medicine in general is we've all been there where we've taken medicine to make something stop hurting for a moment. But then inside of us, we're like, I think there's more going on here. And I wish we had answers to why that pain keeps coming back or why do I keep hurting here? And I know that's easy to see physiologically, like

in the physical, but that's the same in the emotional. Like, why do I keep getting mad about that?

Why when the kid does that, why do I blow up about it and you don't seem to be bothered by it? What does that say about me? And if I could actually figure that out, maybe then this could be a positive moment with my kid instead of a negative one. What's my trigger? What's my button? Why do I have that button? Why do I have that trigger? And then seeing the same thing in our child going, what was going on there? What was their trigger that prompted the behavior? Let me help them have that insight and know what to do about

 

about it so they don't keep having this problematic behavior. I'm thinking Sara as you say that in a real serious way and this happens sometimes where in the place that we live there was, this is like 20 years ago, there was a big sex abuse scandal that happened at a church.

and several kids were sexually abused. And when you look at the story and those outcomes a decade or more later, lots of those kids were coming home at that time and they were acting out. They were very angry and they were saying a lot of mean things to their parents and parents didn't know why. Having all these behavior issues. And many of those parents, all they knew was behavior-based approaches. And lots of those kids became suicidal. Lots of those kids, really bad outcomes happened because they were really hurting inside due to the sex abuse but didn't know how to say that to their parents.

and their parents weren't at that time, they didn't know how to be curious. All they did was see this as disrespect or they saw this as rude and they saw this sin, they saw this evil. So they tried to like oppose all that and change the behavior through fear and shame and there were some really big negative effects on those kids, right? And so not every situation your kid is that big, but in small ways that's happening all the time. Like they may be getting bullied at school or they feel stupid because they failed that test and then they come home and act out.

And if we just focus like my dad did on how I was talking to him, instead of him being curious about the pain that was happening underneath, then we miss a moment where the kid goes, that's what's happening. I'm not acting like this because I'm a bad, spoiled, rotten kid. I'm doing this because I'm hurt, I'm confused, I'm lonely, I'm afraid.

I'm so glad mom and dad will help me with this. Yeah, and for them to even grow and be able to get to the place where like, I was yelling at my sister because I feel like you love her more.

 

Right? Your kids can actually get there. Kids can get to the place where they can, if you teach them to have that insight and pause and they know you're there with them, they can start to have that. And then don't you want to know that? You want to know, okay, it's not that you're a horrible kid who's yelling at your sister all the time. It's that you're feeling, that's the outcome of this feeling of, think you like her more. I mean, she's getting these great grades or she's so whatever it might be. It looks to me like you love her more.

Yeah. Yeah. So emotion-based would also be stuff just like we keep saying, you're curious about what's happening. You're being, you're stopping, you're pausing about what's happening in you. What's happening in the kid. What could be underneath that, right? It's the habit of going, what's underneath this? It's a really hard habit. And you and I slip a lot back into the behavior base. Lots of times we just see the behavior and we're just annoyed with the behavior and we want it. It seems so much faster to just try to change that behavior. because the behaviors don't come out such inconvenient. Yes. Yes. But like, I

I think what we know from watching and dealing with and coaching so many families is it's not faster. Like you think you're solving a problem right there, but all you're doing is getting the kid to just hide the behavior better. And so the behavior is not actually changing. It's just being hidden. So with the emotion base, we're actually wanting to help the kid change the behavior by actually connecting with them, helping them connect with themselves, understand themselves better, and then go, what do I want to do with this feeling? Like just a minute ago, I was hurting, so I hurt my brother.

Instead of saying, when I'm hurting, I don't want to hurt other people. When I'm sad, I don't need to take it out on somebody. And you can address the belief system. Because if you just address the behavior, that belief system gets stronger and stronger and stronger. If it's like, I'm stupid, or I'm a bad kid, or I'm whatever it might be.

All that happens is that belief system is never addressed and it gets stronger over time. So we'd rather know that's there so we can go in and do something about it. So the takeaway, Sara, I think the takeaway for listeners is this. For the next few weeks, as you're trying to raise your awareness of more what's going on under the surface,

 

notice how often you slip to behavior based, how often you just look at the external and try to do a carrot or stick to try to change it. And instead, pause for a moment, be curious about what's underneath just like you would if your kid was sick. I know you've all had those moments where your kid is sick or your kid's in pain and they don't act like you would want them to, but your understanding not to not to say I approve of this, but to say I understand it. I get why you would react this way. And then then I can help the

next time this happens, do it this way. Like just the other day, we have some new cats and one of the cats got out and our dog has never met the cats and the dog went after the cat and our eight year old was scared so she was screaming her head off which terrified us because she was screaming and then we were like what happened? I thought maybe she was getting eaten by the dog but we came over to help and afterwards once everybody was calm and back in the prefrontal cortex, I could say to her, hey next time do it this way. I get that you were scared but you terrified us by how you screamed.

Well, we also didn't even know how to respond. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So we're just like, yell, cat. That's an example of where if you're seeing them at first, connect with the feeling, be curious. What is it? Are they jealous right now? Frustrated? Scared? Hurting? What is it? Try to give it a name and then say, OK, next time, let's do it this way. And I want you to notice how once you connect with that feeling, understand it, how much more open and receptive your child is to doing a different behavior. Yeah.

Okay. So that would be the homework for this time. Now, definitely what we'd love to hear from you on these, as we doing these core four, you got a better name, send it to us as you're practicing some of these techniques in 2025, we'd love to hear from you definitely right through the podcast. It was five stars. We love that. And join us on YouTube. Yeah. And let us know though, cause you know, we've been doing this for so long. We'd love to hear if you're like, okay, that sounds great, but I'm running into this problem or I don't, I mean,

How do I find out, know, whatever the question or challenges might be, like shoot those to us because we're trying to kind of flesh this out and figure out how to share it. Yeah. So really excited to hear from you about how this is helping your family in 2025 and look forward to, we'll have a few more interviews coming up with some great experts and also be adding to these core four. So definitely keep sharing the podcast and keep listening. And we look forward to your feedback. Yeah. Thank you for listening.