Episode 130

Episode 130 Transcript:

Art of Raising Human listeners, you are in for a treat today. This is probably one of the interviews that Sara and I have been most excited about in 2024. And we are so, so pumped to be able to spend some time talking with Dr. Laura Markham. Dr. Laura Markham is one of the mentors, one of the big names in the... 

movers in the field of parenting. She mentored us early on when our kids were little, when we were scared, are we messing up our kids? How do we move away from fear and control and actually create a home that is peaceful and kind and how can we do all that? She was one of those voices that really helped us be on this path and really go through it with courage. 

So if you are on that fence or you're kind of new to this thing, this is an interview for you to jump into and find that courage. If you're wanting to move away from fear and punishment and all, and throughout the interview, she's just gonna give you so much wisdom and so many like little nuggets to walk away with. But by the end, she's gonna give you three clear steps that you can start doing today if you want to start making your home. 

peaceful home and you want to raise peaceful kids who have great relationships with each other who are self disciplined, who have self control and all these these cool things. So you are in for a treat today. Before you jump into the podcast though to listen to this, the all the insights she has take a moment to pause to rate review comments. Definitely let us know how you feel about this this episode and how it's helped you or encourage you in any way we'd love to get all that feedback and be able to send that 

to Dr. Markham to let her know. So without any more delay, let's jump into that interview with Dr. Laura Markham. 

Hello, welcome to the Art of Raising Humans. I'm Kyle. Hi, and I'm Sara. And today is an exciting day, isn't it? It is. We've got a really awesome guest that not only are we so excited to introduce you to her, but it's really personal for Sara and I because, I mean, she has been so instrumental in guiding, directing, informing, educating, all those words in how we raise our three beautiful humans. Yeah. 

And so much so that before I introduced her, just want to say there was so many times early on when we were learning from her, there was a lot of arguments in our home about ways in which to approach certain situations. And I would see it one way and Sara would see it another way. And we would say, you know what, let's just go see what Dr. Laura has to say about it. And so then the frustrating part was I'd say almost a hundred percent of the time, Dr. Laura agreed with Sara. 

So then I was I was like fine. Okay, she said so without further ado I want to introduce you the author of peaceful parent Happy kids peaceful parent happy siblings amazing books if you've not read them We encourage all the parents we work with to read them, but the author of those books that the website aha parenting calm dr. Laura mark Welcome 

Thank you, Sara. Thank you, Kyle. Glad to be here with you today. 

You're welcome. 

It's so good to have you. And I want to just say it to the audience, just, you know, we see so much fruit come from the methods that you taught us. And we found you when our kids were at a very early age. And at that time, we'd already been changing a lot of our parenting methods. We had very much said, hey, we're not going to spank. We're not going to do timeouts. We think fear isn't good for our kids. 

but we still lacked a lot of tools and there was still a lot of fear in us, Laura, about what is this gonna do? Like if we raise our kids this way. You get all the warnings that, man, if you're not gonna punish your kids, you know they're gonna grow up to be terrible humans. you know, just that flip to permissive and it's gonna be horrible. And so there's a piece of us who we hadn't been down this road already. So, you know, each step you're thinking, okay, this is gonna be okay, right? This is gonna be okay, right? 

And so I probably I'm sure you probably hear that a lot and especially in today's culture, know Laura you're aware that there's a lot of stuff on social media about gentle parenting and peaceful parenting and these things being you raising kids who are Enabled and entitled and all that stuff So just wanted to hear your thought because it really was your voice that gave us confidence to go. You know what? This is 

the best thing we can do for our kids. how do you tip it? When people bring up those concerns, how do you respond? 

Well, I think you're right when you say parents have a lot of fear, right? Parents want to do the best job they can and it's such a hard job, right? And you don't know how your kid's gonna turn out when they're three or four or five and you're trying to be the best parent you can be, right? And teach them what you think they need to know. But when we look at the research about what's gonna happen, what we learn is that kids 

do better when they feel safe. And kids do better when they feel connected to their parents. Kids do better when they feel seen and valued for who they are. So the kind of parenting that I teach and that you teach, which we call peaceful parenting, it's really to me, that's about peace in your own heart. the... 

Yeah. 

connections in your home, but it could just as easily be called conscious parenting because we try to be aware of what we're doing. It could just as easily be called connected parenting because it's all about the relationship you have with your child. Notice it's not, I'm not addressing limits anywhere in that. Limits do need to get set. My experience is that children cannot make all their own decisions yet when they're three or even when they're 13 and they're challenged sometimes when they're 23. But 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

But we all learn as we get older and we all take on more and more responsibility for our lives, right? Our children become much more able at 14 than they were at four. But that doesn't mean we're not setting limits at 14, just like we were setting different limits, we were setting limits at four. Kids do need limits. And I think when parents, all that... 

Yeah. 

social media conversation about how it's raising kids who are entitled or kids who are, you know, spoiled. It's because people are confusing connection with limits, right? So let's just stipulate connection is a good thing. A positive connection with your child that's a lot of trust and you're responsive to their needs. The research is really clear on this. Plus any common sense person would tell you it's really clear. That's what children need. 

Yeah. Yes. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Yes, definitely. Yep. 

Yeah, yep. 

Now, does that same child also need limits sometimes? Of course they do. Do they need harsh limits? No, that would actually erode your connection. They need us to say, you really wish you could have that cookie. No cookies now, it's too close to dinner. You can set the limit and still be totally connected to your child while you do it. 

Yeah, yeah. 

Yeah. 

Thank 

And I think that's what parents don't understand. That's why they get scared. They think we're gonna let kids, you know, just make all their own decisions and run roughshod over the rest of the family or worse yet over the people in that restaurant. And of course that's not the kind of parenting we're talking about. We're talking about what the research shows works, which is meeting kids needs, not giving them everything they want, meeting their needs. And those needs are for emotional connection. 

Yeah. 

and emotional support as well as they are for physical food and sleep and hugs. 

Yeah, yeah. and Laura, know, I'm curious, where did you get your confidence to parent this way? Because obviously I just talked about how we had never seen any models. You we kept going, do we know any families doing this? know any families doing this? And so I wonder, how did you grow in your confidence as a parent to take this risk and to not do what was the norm when you were raising your kids, which would have been typical kind of more fear-based control techniques? 

Well, I was uniquely lucky that I was getting a PhD in psychology and I was very interested in children. didn't yet have children as I was finishing my classwork. I was pregnant with my son who was my oldest. So I was lucky in that I was reading everything I could get my hands on and the research was pretty clear. 

Mm. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

There had been decades of research that showed that spanking children was really bad for them. It made them feel unsafe. made them not trust the parent. It made their brain develop differently because it meant that the amygdala and the alarm system had to be online all the time guarding the child. And as a result, fewer resources from the brain, well, from the body, that went to the nervous system, fewer resources were going into the prefrontal cortex, the executive functions. More resources were going into the amygdala. 

Mm. Yeah. 

Yeah, yeah. Yep. 

Yeah. 

alarm system. So, you know, it was pretty clear to me that obviously that wasn't, that punishment with physical means didn't work. But what about other kinds of punishment? And the more I read, the more it became clear that any kind of harshness would erode the relationship with the child. And that, again, decades worth of research showed that it was all about the connection with the child. When the child 

Yeah. Yeah. 

was connected. We're all born looking for that connection, right? And when the child feels connected to the parent, when the child trusts the parent to be there for them, to see them, soothe them when they need it, accept their big feelings even when they're inconvenient, when that relationship exists, the child feels safe and the child will try. 

Yes. Yep. 

as well as they can to cooperate. Now they can't always, sometimes their big feelings overwhelm them and they don't have a fully developed prefrontal cortex. It's still under construction. But the research was so clear that when my son was born, I was like, okay, I'm parenting this way. And by the way, that's not how I was parented. I was absolutely slapped across the face. I was spanked with a hairbrush, right? And I was certainly not. 

Yeah. 

Wow. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Me too. Me too. 

or not a lot, any negative feeling was not allowed. So it's not that I was raised that way, but I remembered what it was like to be a child and be raised with harshness. And I had read all these studies and I was committed to trying to do something different and to looking at my own fear. You mentioned parents are afraid. I really... 

Yeah. Yep. 

when I became afraid. So I remember very distinctly with my son when he was maybe three and he had gotten him for his birthday one of those plastic, big clunky cars from Toys R Us. You could get in and it was just little car and would drive it. Yeah. And his cousin came to visit and his cousin only lived a couple of blocks away. So wasn't that he was from out of town or something, but he came to visit and the car was a new thing. And of course, 

Yes, yes, yes, of course, those are awesome, yes. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Eli wanted to show everybody his car and Ethan, the cousin was like, I want to drive the car. Of course, they're both three years old. And I was like, Eli, could we give your cousin a turn with the car? And Eli was like, no, that's my car. You know, like, absolutely not. And I had never encountered this. You know, he had always, he'd never been that attached to something. his, Ethan's mother, my sister-in-law said, well, 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah. Yep. Yep. 

if you want your child to learn to share, obviously you need to haul them out of the car. I mean, she didn't use the word haul to be fair to her. Her attitude was that I was a terrible mother and I wasn't yet Dr. Laura. you know, she was just like, I'm just your sister-in-law and clearly I'm messing up big time. And she was saying, you know, if you want your kid to learn to share, you're going to have to force him to do this. And I was, I was not going to get into a, like haul my kid out of the car, but I also thought it was really unfair to the cousin. And I remember like, 

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. 

Yeah, yeah. 

Okay, well, do I use force in this instance? What do I do? I ended up not forcing him to share it, but putting it away, putting it into the garage and shutting the door. Because clear, I didn't know what to do. But I started to really think about, okay, what do you do when, you're, forced, should you use force, you know, to make your kid comply? Yeah. 

Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm. 

Mmm... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yeah. Yep. 

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah. Should you make them be giving? Yeah. 

Yeah. I always, one of my favorite questions to ask, I have a couple, but one I want to ask you is since you have, you're on the other side of this, you know, there's a lot of parents who their kids, mean, even we're in the middle of it, but the kids are three, four or five and they're trying to think, is this going to really work out? Right. And they're in the middle of those huge feelings. 

And you get kind of, had that feeling when I was a young parent of younger kids thinking, is this really gonna work out? So now that you're on the other side of it, what, looking back at it, how has it worked out? What are the relationships like with your kids? Just sort of the, when you've answered that question a long time ago for us, but I want our audience to hear 

it because it was something that has. 

been a lighthouse or an anchor for me in the midst of sometimes wondering about that. It's been something that your words have been something I've hung onto. So can you share that? So I think it's helpful to other people. 

Well 

There are so many different criteria on which we would say like, how did that kid turn out? And I am very proud of both of my kids and they are on the other side of it. My son got out of law school and got a job as a lawyer and my daughter who's 28 just published her first book. So they're definitely on the other side of that. And what I would say is parents often have said things like, well, clearly 

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah, yeah. 

Wow, how nice. Yes. 

cool, exciting, yeah. 

you're not, and they're assuming there's an assumption there about you're not setting limits enough. Clearly, you know, your kids are not going to have any self-discipline. And what I observed is my kids have more self-discipline than most kids because it's self-discipline. It's not the discipline from outside. And because what we've learned about the way the brain develops is that the prefrontal cortex has to overrule 

Yep. 

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

the limbic system, the emotional brain 

over and over again. know, the kids like, want that second cupcake. I wanna blow off my homework and just go, you know, do whatever. I wanna, you know, when they were teenagers, I wanna try that marijuana that someone's offering me and see what it's like, you know. But if there's something they want more, I'm not gonna do that. 

Yeah. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yeah. 

and they will build the neural wiring to overrule the limbic system. So my son's like, you know what? I don't want to get kicked off the soccer team. That's much more important to me than trying that marijuana. My daughter's like, well, I actually really want to, I don't want to do that homework. That seems really boring to me. That's that particular homework. But I have a good relationship with that teacher. I know my parents would be disappointed if I'm just blowing off my homework. And I'm the kind of person who 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

does my homework first. Because she had learned that over and over again, not by my being harsh to make them do things, but by my saying, I hear you right as a second grader. Yeah, I hear you. It doesn't sound fun to do that homework. And how can we make it bearable? Because you're going to have homework to do for a while here. So let's find ways to make it work. Because my kids were not homeschooled like your kids. 

Yes. Yeah. Yep. 

Yeah. 

Yeah, that's right. Yes, yes, yes. 

How can you, 

the best thing I can say about homework is it helps them learn to sit down and do an unpleasant task. That's the only good reason for homework in my book. But anyway, they learned to do it because instead of making it a negative, I found ways to make the choice, for them to make the choice so that they were choosing, you know, I want this piece of cake, but I want my health more. I wanna. 

Yes, you're right. 

Yeah. 

Yes. Yep. 

I'm sort of interested in that marijuana someone's offering me, but I want to be on the soccer team more and I might get caught. know, like, like I don't, and also I don't want to face my parents knowing I've made that choice. So the higher value that wins out there, right? It is building the neural muscles, but it's, it's the neural connections to override the limbic system, the emotions. So they build in self-discipline. There's a lot of research showing that this is what happens. 

Yeah, 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

If all of the disciplines from outside, the kids are not building that neural wiring, when they're making the choice for the higher value they want, then they're building the neural wiring. So my kids, as I say, my daughter is 28 and she just published a book. It's sort of an unusual thing for a 28 year old, but that took an enormous amount of self-discipline, I can tell you watching her. And I don't usually brag about my kids, but... 

Yeah. Yes. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Sure, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yeah, 

But since you're asking, know, my son went to high school, you know, it's 

like they both have been very good students. They both really applied themselves. They both had great self-discipline. But that's because people have always said to me, they won't have any self-discipline because you don't, you know, right? But I also want to say that's not what I'm most proud of. What I'm most proud of is who they are as human beings. And throughout their schooling, 

Yeah. 

Yes, I know. I know. Yeah, because you know, yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

I would get these unsolicited notes from teachers. I still remember one that I got when my son was in maybe seventh grade and maybe sixth grade, sixth grade, same school. So, and the teacher said, I just want to tell you, totally unsolicited. It wasn't part of the report card or anything. It was in maybe October, November, you know, in the new school year. And she said, your son is so thoughtful and so helpful to the other kids in the class. 

Hmm. 

Yeah. 

He always pays attention. He tries to make my life easier. But he also is so kind to the other kids. He gets along with everybody. And he's just a delight in the school community. And I thought, yes, that's what we're really going for, right? That's what we want. And my daughter got similar kinds of notes throughout her school. And I think that's, I mean, they're all going to have different personalities, right? 

Yes, Yeah. 

Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yep. 

You know, some of them are gonna be more shy. He's actually more shy than she is. Some of them are gonna be more outgoing, but they're all, they don't feel threatened by the world, they have the opportunity to learn empathy and compassion. And if they've been treated with empathy and compassion, that's how they treat other people. So I think that in some ways is the most important part of what we're doing with this kind of parenting. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Yes. 

Yeah. 

Well, I love that Laura. It makes me think of one of the things that we're most proud of is this kind of parenting because of the self-discipline, the self-control, the ability where they understand how to get up to the prefrontal cortex and regulate those is you see more freedom. And what I mean by freedom is when they see options, they're able to choose what is best in that moment. 

not just be impulsive and just choose whatever is most shiny or most exciting, but they're actually able to be thoughtful about their decisions. And I remember one of the things that really gave me confidence after getting to spend time with you was I was at Panera and Brennan was probably like five at the time. And I got this, I got this free cookie. It was a big cookie at Panera and I wasn't going to eat it. And I said, Hey Brennan, you can have that cookie. And Brennan said, would you, would you cut it in half so I can give the other half to Abby? 

And I was like, okay. Like I never would have done that with my siblings. would have eaten the cookie and rubbed it in their face when I got the cookie. Cause the cookie would have been like this representation of love that my dad loved me and I got the special thing and you didn't, right? And not only did I cut it, I didn't cut it great. It wasn't perfectly half, but he ate the smaller side and said, I want to give the bigger one to Abby. And I was just sitting there looking at this going like, what is happening? 

Like, why is he doing this? What kid gives the big and like from the they've always done that. Like anytime they if I go get a haircut and the person gives out a sucker, they'll say, could I get two more suckers to bring home to my siblings, you know, and they're always being so thoughtful of each other. So so even on top of what you talked about with your kids is just we've also been able to see that relationship among the siblings that I when we got into I think it was possible. I didn't know that I thought you had to have sibling rivalry. I thought they had to be 

at each other's throats and you're constantly like keeping them away from each other. But instead it's like, no, they're actually better together. know, whereas to a lot of parents, it's like worse when they're all together because there's more conflict that's never been resolved. So I just thought that was a really great fruit of what you teach as well. And that's part of your book, Peaceful Parent Happy Siblings, is I really started to see this dream that you presented in that book was like becoming reality. 

I love hearing those stories. That's the most, you know, the best thing about the work that you do and that I do is being able to hear from parents, you know, I didn't think this would work in my family, but I tried it and I can't believe it. And I hear that so much that I know that the people who are listening to your podcasts are trying these things a little bit at a time and they're seeing the results. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. I love, I do feel like, you you're, you take a step as a parent, like, okay, I'm going to drop this stuff. I'm going to try to pick up this stuff. And the whole time you care so much about your children and you're trying so hard, you know, you love them and it's not going to be perfect, but I love hearing. I like, like I said, I like hearing your story and I like hearing it because as anything in life, when you're 

in the middle of grad school and you're exhausted and it's nice to hear from people who said, don't worry, you can do this. It's gonna be worth it, keep going. Keep going in the moments that are hard. And I know one moment that was hard for us, our oldest daughter is a big feeling kid and I love that about her. And it also presented the challenge to me as a parent where I would doubt, I think, okay, I'm... 

I'm empathizing. I'm, you know, do it. I she looked just like you, Mark. And when she was doing it, she'd be like, that's exactly what Dr. Laura would say to do. I would do this stuff, but in the middle of it, when it's been 30 minutes and there's this huge breakdown going on and all these big feelings. And sometimes I would think, you know, is, is this going to change? Yeah. You know? And so when you're in the middle of that, what, what 

What did you say to your, don't know if you had a child like that, but what do you say to parents or what are some, some, cause I would, I would feel, I feel like that's something we do hear a lot from parents when the, when they have those big feelings. What if I've tried everything? I've given a hug, I've empathized. then it's the big feelings continue. It seems to never stop. Like, and like, even like, it almost seemed like Abby, you know, Laura would like the eating up the empathy of you. Like, and the more, instead of the feeling dissipating, it seemed like the feeling continued to increase. 

So we're in a different part now and we're past it, but I would love to hear your voice and your thoughts. What encouragement do you give to parents or thoughts to being in the middle of the big feelings and it feels like it's never going to change. 

So there are two important points about this. One is, what's wrong with the big feelings? Every human is different. We're all on a continuum, right? We're not trying to get rid of feelings. We are trying to make sure that our relationship with feelings is healthy. Because if we're stuffing those feelings, then we're gonna need to self-medicate when we get older, which is why people drink, do drugs, you know, eat. 

Yes. 

Yeah. 

Yep. Yep. Yep. 

Yeah, yeah, 

yeah. Yes, yeah. Sure, yeah, yeah. 

unhealthy ways, right? Shop. You know, there's all kinds of unhealthy habits that we self-medicate with, right? 

So when we don't allow feelings and we stuff those feelings, we're setting up an unhealthy relationship with the feelings. We're telling our kid, you know, your feelings are either they're dangerous. That's why I was told feelings are dangerous. You know, like you don't have those feelings. Those are bad. Or you'll get hit if you have those feelings or at least if you express them. But also, 

Yeah, yep. Yep. 

Sure, exactly, yeah. 

We sometimes tell kids your feelings are, you're just too much. You're just too much. And the kid gets the message that they are too much to be loved. That their authentic self, which feels this anguish that their friend moved away or this disappointment that they can't have the same birthday party someone else had that cost a ton of money or whatever. know, whatever the feeling is, they feel these big feelings. And we sometimes as parents, 

Yes, yes. Yes. 

like, what's all the drama about? Like, get over it, kid. And we give them the message that they're too much. And they try to tamp it down, they try to stuff it down, and again, end up self-medicating. So no parent wants to give their child, you know, 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

to make their child stuff their feelings so that they end up self-medicating. No parent wants that. But we don't know that's what we're doing when we give that message. So that's the most important message I would give parents is, okay, so your kid's got big feelings. Your job is not to get rid of the feelings. That's not the job. The job is to make sure they have a healthy relationship with their feelings, which is it's okay to have those feelings. It's normal to have those feelings. No, you cannot. 

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

act out when you have the feelings. can't throw that thing across the room at your brother because you're mad at him. And yes, it's true, you're really disappointed that you couldn't have that birthday, but you're not allowed to scream and shout at your family about it. I'm happy to, you know, not happy, but I'm at, I'm right here to listen to your feelings. And, and you're not going to make the whole family miserable at dinner because you're disappointed you didn't get the birthday party you wanted, right? So we, find a balance between we absolutely show up 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yes, yeah, yeah. 

for their feelings. show up for the disappointing times. We show up for the anguish when the friend moves away. We show up for the anger at the brother. And we help her figure out what she wants to say to her brother that she's so angry at him about. And we set the limits that we need to. You can't throw things. can't, you know, have a tantrum. And if you're going to have a tantrum because you didn't get the toy you wanted and you're four years old, we're going to take you out of the store and into the car, you know, whatever. so we set limits around the acting out. 

Yeah. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

but we absolutely accept the behavior. we, a lot of times when kids have big feelings, they don't want to be hugged. If they do want to be hugged, we're right there with the hug because we know it's not a reflection on us. And we know it's, they're not going to be doing this when they're 20. They have a not fully developed prefrontal cortex. Right. And it is completely normal for children to get overwhelmed by their big feelings. And frankly, 

Yeah. 

Yep, yep, yep, yep. 

If you and I were devastated about something, hopefully we wouldn't be throwing something across the room, but we might have some big feelings sometimes and we would want someone to understand and not to tell us we were a bad person, right? So that's my frame of the big feelings. The reassurance to the parent is, first of all, your kid will not act like this forever. Secondly, when we ask children to stuff their feelings, 

Yes. 

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. 

Yes. 

The feeling, when we say that's, those are bad feelings, go what you're too much. You got to get this under control. When we, when we ask kids to stuff their feelings, what happens is, well, I use the metaphor of the emotional backpack, the feelings go in the emotional backpack, right? But any massage therapist will tell you that the backpack is the body. There's no real backpack, right? It's the body. 

Yes, yes, 

yes, yes. 

And the subconscious is the body. Things we know now, all the trauma work that people have done in the last couple of decades, we know that trauma is stored in the body. Everything is stored in the body. Anything you don't work out at the time. So if you and I, if anyone is having an incident that is emotional that we can't handle at the time. 

You know, you're in school, you're in front of the class, you're humiliated, and you can't burst into tears in front of the class. So you, you stop that and you, a little part of you freezes up with that thing you stuffed. And maybe you go home and you trust your parents to let it out in front of your parents and to tell them and to cry, and then it's gone. It's not stored in your body. But maybe you don't. And it gets stored in your body. And a little piece of you is always afraid to stand up in front of a group. 

and speak after that for the rest of your life, right? Because you never worked it out. So the problem with stuffing things is it can make your body sick. That's one thing. It can limit your ability to realize your potential in life. That's another thing. But there's another part of it. Things that are in your emotional backpack or your subconscious are no longer under conscious control. 

Yeah. 

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah, yep. 

So 

if you have a child, if you start parenting this way and all of a sudden your child feels free and safe to safe, safe with you and free to show you all those big emotions and they're there. I've had so many parents tell me they started parenting this way and the kid would, the four year old would come home from preschool and be stomping around the house. And then when the parent would say, okay, I'm right here. Would you like a hug? And they would burst into tears and cry for half an hour. And the parent would like after three days of this would be, you know, 

Yep. 

reaching out to me and saying, how long is this gonna go on? Is this like every day for the rest of their life they're gonna cry for half an hour after school? Yeah, yeah. And my answer is no, absolutely not. They've been stuffing those feelings. Now they're free to let them out. So. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, is this the new norm? 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

When parents start to parent this way and they see a lot of big emotions, it's the emotional backpack emptying because the child feels safe with you. And just be there, accept the emotions, tell them that was a lot of crying, those were some big feelings. It's okay, I got you. You can always show me what you're feeling no matter what. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

And what will happen is that might be a half an hour for three days in a row or even two weeks in a row, but it's going to start being 20 minutes. It's going to start being 10 minutes. It's going to start being every other day instead of every day. And then it's going to be once a month. And you know what? If you have a highly sensitive child, even once the backpack's empty, they're going to come home from school and cry, every few weeks because of something that happened. But they're not bringing, they'll be free to cry at that moment. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. 

Yes. 

Yep. 

and they're not bringing the past into it. They're not locking things up in their body that they need to release. So even the kid with the big feelings, if you've parented, you know, conventionally for the first six years of their life, they might have to do a lot more crying, but they will get past that. And then the crying will ease and they'll always have big feelings, but that's an indicator. You know, I love Sara that you said you love that your daughter has big feelings. That's who she is. I have a daughter with big feelings too. And I... 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah. 

You know, my daughter is one of the most socially skilled people I know now as a young adult, right? And so it's the hypersensitivity that produces those big feelings, but that sensitivity makes them natural leaders too. 

Yep, that's our truth. know, know, know. Yep, 

Yeah, yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what I'm finding. I mean, I'm sorry, but I remember when I would, I would just lean into it. I'd lean into her big feelings and, and tell her I'm here. I can handle it. I can handle your big feelings. And she would have the really, really big feelings, but there'd come this point where she'd sort of my word for it is kind of melt. She just like finally kind of, could feel where the feeling had finally gotten out and she just kind of melt into me. 

Yes. 

And, and I was a great stuffer as a kid. mean, just the most skilled stuffer and to know that I was giving her that I kind of felt like, my feelings won't aren't acceptable or they'll overwhelm. They're going to be overwhelming. So I'll just keep them all tucked in here and to give her something where it's like, it's okay. I can be with you in those big feelings. I, you, you don't have to be alone in your big feelings. 

Yeah. 

I can hold them with you. can handle it. And to see her be able to just get that out, be able to move forward and almost just release those. was so rewarding to me as the parent, even in the midst of sometimes feeling kind of worried that this was going to never, never change, but it did change. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and to know that that wasn't going to be carried on and on and on for years and stuffed in, I mean, you know, 

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

in her backpack for decades of time was, just something that I loved as a parent to be able to do and experience that with her. and the thing I'll add to it is the thing I noticed too, since Sara was naturally so much better at empathy than I was like in my home, crying was not something you showed a lot of. It definitely was like those negative emotions you wanted to get to. Yelling was used quite a bit. but I would see Sara 

doing this empathy thing and then the kids seemingly having all these emotions and I'd be like, this ain't working. Like, whatever you're doing, Sara is making it worse. And then what hit me one day, I went and saw this movie and it was a movie with a bunch of my guy friends and it was some kind of military movie and stuff. And at the end of the movie, we're talking, I was good, we liked it, know? But there was some parts of it that did touch me, but didn't make me cry or anything. And then as I'm driving home, I call Sara up. 

And Sara says, how was the movie? And like the way she said it, like I just started bawling. I started being like, I'm thinking like, is this what she does to the kids? makes this like safe place that I can just, and like all of a sudden there was feelings I didn't even know I had about the movie because there wasn't a space to share it. The guys weren't, know, even though they were asking, how'd you like the movie? It wasn't like the same. And the way she said it unleashed it. 

to where it may have just been stuck in my body and me not even be aware of how that movie affected me until she'd asked me. So I want for all our listeners to also understand that as you're doing this style of parenting and you learn more how to lean into empathy and you're asking questions with an open hand and giving space for them to really like share it with you, you are gonna see some bigger feelings because like you said, now not only they feel safe, but they feel like there's an invitation and acceptance to say, 

please, I want you to share that with me. Whereas in my childhood, that typically wasn't asked. Either it was not wanted or we're just too busy to ever have those conversations. So I just want to point that out that so many times the way she talks or the way you talk, it brings up these emotions in me of just like, I can tell them what I'm feeling. And that's what we want our kids to have for a lifetime is a place where they know that person is receptive and open to those. 

feelings, big or small, whatever. 

What a beautiful story. And you know, I think since we were, of us raised without this kind of understanding that feelings are okay, there's nothing wrong with our feelings. They're part of what makes us human. We can love ourselves through them. We can tolerate big feelings. We can use them after we calm down in our decision-making. We can learn from them. know, they're part of a rich human life, right? And we don't have to act on them. I think that's a critical. 

Yeah. 

thing that we learn as we change our relationship with feelings. We're not driven by what's in our subconscious. We're driven by our prefrontal cortex making decisions about what we value based on what the emotions are, right? But because we weren't most of us raised that way, I think your experience with the movie, most of us carry those feelings around. don't have a safe place to, we don't even have the relationship with ourselves. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Yes. Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

that allows us to do it. what I love about this kind of parenting is not only do we give our kids that safe place to notice their feelings, which means they're growing from those feelings even as children, but we're also helping them to develop a relationship with themselves where they're saying, it's okay to have these feelings. So no matter what, 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

when I get, when I'm 16 and I have a big feeling and I'm not with my parents, I'm off at, you know, whatever, I can take care of me. You know, I'm thinking about each of our kids being like you with that movie. And I've got some tears in there, but I can actually process them, whether I'm a boy or a girl. I mean, you know, because I'm sure boys at 16 are not going to be showing their guy friends any of these feelings. But if they have, if they've been raised this way, 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah, I know, know, yeah, yeah. 

then it's safe for them to take care of themselves too. 

Yeah. Could I ask you, Laura, to do something as we're wrapping up? there's a lot of listeners who listen to our podcast obviously know what peaceful parenting is and how we teach you about that, there's probably going to be a lot of new people who are just being introduced to it. So if you could, you know, they're like, what is this? What is it? What does it mean to be a peaceful parent or to be a conscious parent or all those different terms where we're using to describe it? How would you sum it up and how would you say they could start today to actively 

Okay. 

are being that type of parent. 

Great, so there are only three ideas that they need to get their head around. There's lots of helpful tools, but the three big ideas are really simple. The first idea is it's all about your relationship with the child. It's not a set of strategies, it's a relationship. So that's the most important thing. And if you're doing things that support that relationship, keep doing them. If you're doing things that erode the relationship, 

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Yeah, yep, yep. 

you need to step back and say, that really necessary to do that thing? You thought it was to teach a lesson, but maybe, you know, that's not actually the best way to teach the lesson. Maybe you're teaching some inadvertent lessons, right? So it's all about the relationship. That's number one. Number two, your kid is trying to do their best. What they need from you is not control. The research is very clear that control does not help kids. They certainly don't need control through punishment or control through bribes. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Yep. 

Yeah. 

They need coaching. What's gonna help your kid to be their best is functioning as their coach. That means their coach with their emotions, which we've talked a little about that, but also their coach who says, uh-uh, no, no, no, that's not how we do this. We don't throw the thing at your brother, you know? No, we're not gonna eat the cookie. So you're absolutely guiding your child. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 

you're doing that from the first idea, which is connection. So you're starting with connection and then you're guiding, coaching, right? As opposed to controlling. Notice that to do those things, you have to be sort of calm. You can't be like being driven by your own anger, you know, no, don't do that. How could you hit your brother? Right? And you also can't be driven by your fear. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

no, if I don't step in right now and teach this kid a big lesson, he's gonna grow up to be, no, he's not gonna, calm down. You can't make your best decisions when your prefrontal cortex is offline. So we have to regulate our own emotions so that we're parenting from a place of, from the heart, from love and compassion, not from our fears, right? So that's the third big idea is, 

Yeah. Yep. Yep. 

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

is all about self-regulation and there's a lot of tools under each of those. You can't self-regulate unless your own cup is full, right? You can't give your kids patience unless you're taking care of you as a for instance, right? There's a lot of tools to strengthen your connection with your child depending on how old they are, one on one time with each kid. If you've got a big family, that's hard, but you have to do some of that or you won't have the relationship you want. 

Yeah. 

Sure, of course. Yep. Yep. 

So you know have to accept the feelings that's part of the connection right but it's also part of the coaching. So there's a lot of tools underneath those three big ideas but really if you just think in terms of connection coaching and self-regulation you got it. 

Yep. Yep. 

Yeah, 

I know that that's the basics. so I want to, I already mentioned at the beginning, but for all our listeners, there's so many great ways to find out what you teach. Obviously the books are phenomenal. So, you know, look up Peaceful Parent Happy Kids and then Peaceful Parent Happy Siblings. Her website, ahaparenting.com. I mean, I'm telling you, Sara and I, even today, if there's times where we're like, wow, what's the best way? Like we go in and we just get that extra support to see. 

And you know, Laura, you've written about almost every topic. Like if they write in biting, there's like 10 articles, biting other people. So there's all these different types of articles because you've been so great about writing that stuff down and giving them step by step. mean, I still use a lot of your stuff when parents come in or going through divorce, you've got so much great stuff there. So I'll be like, hey, just go to her website, type in this, this is how to handle that when you're talking to the kids. So it's a phenomenal resource. That's all hot parenting.com. then you also Yeah. 

And actually, can I say that the name 

has changed because people were always confused. Well, is it peaceful, parent happy kids? What's this? A haparenting. aha parenting, they would say. And I'd be like, yeah, aha moments. And they're like, right. So I finally changed aha parenting to peaceful, happy kids. It's all peaceful, parent happy kids. 

has it? tell me. yes. Great. Thank you. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. 

go. Got it. Great. Okay. So, go there. And then there's also your community. Like you've got a fantastic community where people all the time are signing up to get to learn from you and to get your teachings. Right. So how did they do that? Yep. 

So there's a free newsletter. 

It goes out to 125,000 parents and it's completely free. It's every Thursday and it has articles about a range of things. There's four articles that, you know, at different ages, some of it is about your own self-regulation. Some is how to coach your child if they're biting or tantrums or whatever. Some of it is about connection. So that's every Thursday and it's free. Any page of the website, they can sign up for that. And then I also offer an online course. so the... 

course is sort of like the parenting boot camp that really helps you integrate these ideas into your life. And there are scholarships for the course. You can enroll in the course. can register today. And as I say, you can see changes by bedtime. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

And you can apply for the scholarship and we're considering scholarships every week. We look at the scholarships and decide on any scholarships that we're granting the next week. So you don't have to wait on this anymore. The way it used to be, you only took the course once every few months I offered it. So, and then once you're in the course, there's a very developed community. People who've been doing this kind of parenting since I started doing this work in 20. 

Yeah, yeah. Awesome. 

14 are on this community and they've been doing this work for 10 years and they're so supportive to each other and they've seen everything. So they're like, yeah, that happened with my kid too. Let me help. 

Yeah, yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, the freaky thing about the newsletter, Laura is almost every time we had an issue that we ran into with our kids and we're like, what should we do here? That newsletter would pop up and be like, she just wrote an article about it. She is she in our home? How did she know that? Because Sara would just like forward it to me and be like, did you see the newsletter this week? Because it says here's what we should do about X, Y, and Z. And so yeah, it's really cool. So if they sign up for that, 

They're gonna be chock full of all the info that they need. And of course, getting the community and support is fantastic. So we are so thankful, Laura, for you to spend the time and I'm sure the audience has been so blessed with all the information and knowledge and just like the encouragement to me. That's the biggest part that you offer is your voice is so encouraging to continue on this path. And so just thank you for taking the time to join us today. Yeah, thank you. 

Thank you.